Can we walk about Catharsis Bloom?

a stationary healing battery is only useful for turtling purposes. However, when you're talking about contesting a font using a 25 nora shadowspawn relic that replicates itself in several turns....

I mean, tbh I use CB and Osarius without even considering its effects, I just place one in a quirky space to contest the font using my stealth champs. I don't really care about its effects. 25 nora to potentially get 2 relics contesting a font is good enuff for me.

 

I beg to disagree, it has been a priceless healing source for me in my decks that included KF. That is because I play agressively and my healers usually can't "keep up", which is WHY I tend to favor Divine Favor and relics/spells for healing (or forgoing healing completely). The fact that it is stealthed allows it to remain in the midst of combat a bit more safely, thus increasing each champion's utility and creating a "small haven" to center around while fighting in/for a font.

(I feel like I need to state this clearly so as to prevent certain types of people from dropping annoying replies: My above explanation has nothing to do with power level. I am NOT claiming it is balanced in its current form and I am greatly in favor of a change. There, that should do it.)

 

true I've seen some people doing that. quite annoying tbh. 8 HP a turn basically made me miscalculate everything during midfont brawls.

 

It's one of those runes that is really good, or really crappy. Just takes placement I suppose.

 

When is it really crappy? I'm having a hard time coming up with an instance where deploying the flower could ever be described as really crappy.

Worst case scenario you are down a whopping 25 nora and something healed for 8 dmg.

 

....interestingly annoying. but yeah, shadowspawned relics are very complicated I guess. Even at 40 Nora, people would still say its real usage is really bad for 40 nora. I'm very sure 35 Nora, and less HP would be nice, something like 5 HP. In any case, people just use Osarius for finishing off other champs, so you can't say "It'll die in one hit!". I think its way fairer if it dies in one hit. If its not shadowspawned, I feel like its not unique enough.

 

Its an un-manly flower. So as a guy if I run it Im faced with the stigma of being unmanly. Thats the drawback!

 

Just give it Heal Champion 3 the starts on a 1 turn cooldown instead of the AoE healing.

1. You can't heal with it on the turn it is deployed.
2. 2+ Blooms will be very efficient healers. 1, not so much.
3. If it uses Heal Champion 3, it gets revealed. So you choose whether to wait for it to propagate in safety or to use the healing right off.

 

HP to 10, nora to 35, heal to 6. Or some combination of that. I like the design of the rune, but I agree that it is too efficient

 

HP to 1, heal to 2, cost to 50.

 

count as plant, propagate end of your turn, only in font zone, not stealthed, heals plants/fairy only by 2, hp 5, noracost no idea

 

maybe only the first relic propagates otherwise the whole font would be bloomed in a few turns

 

As a longtime KF loyalist who has just come back to the game, the little flower bothers me not at all because it's pretty easy to identify its relative importance and the ways and/or need to deal with it based on the situation. I'd say that's true for a half dozen runes in any faction. I once played moga for a few weeks because I couldn't defeat them. It kept me from drafting at least twenty rant posts about how unfair things were.

In this case, catharsis bloom is a beast if you let it get rolling and is often worth "wasting" nora and AP to destroy quickly. However, in many BGs, treefolk's blessing is a better use of the spot. It's two spaces away so it doesn't take a genius to figure out its location and scrub off 15 HP. Then again, it's far easier to deal with it by attempting to kill it in the forums with a Chicken Little worst case scenario (not that difficult to do with a number of runes in any faction after all). However, it isn't that hard to avoid having the battlefield look like the Chelsea Flower Show.

edit: I get Truce's point about it being "no lose" even if you kill it quick but that's not automatically a case for adjusting it IMO. One thing he did hit the nail on IMO is the pain of defeating tough/resist/mass HP beastie units regardless of the source of healing. I am always surprised we don't opt for more healing deficiency in the game as a way to deal with it. I am also a little nervous to see how some of the more intelligent builders find ways to exploit the rune since I've learned that anything that multiplies or has exponential qualities almost always ends in the apocalypse.

 

(sarcasm on) I agree, because shadow spawned relics with an area of effect heal, that continuously replicates itself, that is easy to identify its placement, in a game that just had its damage reduced across the board making healing a lot more impactful and generally more costly on champs that have forms of heal, on a cheap relic like catharis bloom that can be placed in your shrine on your first turn, is SOOOOOOOO easy to prevent from getting rolling. (sarcasm off)

 

Have you played the rune against people or is your complaint purely based on playing against it? If you took the shadowspawn off, you'd get a round of healing followed by an AoE on all those champs (which deals with this rune nicely anyway) which would make it pretty silly to run. Not like the relic HP itself needs to be reduced but I suppose we could make it a oneshot target for even the basest champ. That leaves how much nora, how much healing, how often, and whether the individual relics should replicate at all and whether they should have a lifespan. All pretty good discussion points but I'd probably spend some time playing the rune to make comments on what changes should be made if any.

 

epic fail

 

I suppose you win in the "I know you are but what am I" world but I'd say you lost in the world of dialogue.

I just pointed out several ways it could be adjusted; not sure how that makes me a protectionist but I am sure it all coalesces into a clear worldview for you. On the other hand, the fact that you didn't answer my question - have you tried playing the rune to see how it plays? - is very telling. I have nowhere near the sense to know whether the rune needs adjusting. However, I'd be willing to bet you don't either. You just see something you don't like and a bandwagon you can hop on. Discussing things with you is like talking with the wall I am sure you find your brand of logic running into on a daily basis.

p.s. If you need to clue your audience in to the use of sarcasm, you aren't doing it right.