Design Discussion: Upgrade "Packages"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, May 6, 2017.

  1. DukeofDunks

    DukeofDunks I need me some PIE!

    Help me understand here because im horribly confused, why exactly did you make a post almost purely to say you were going to make a post later?
  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    he does that. but it also puts the thread on watches so notifications may remind you to go and post.
    Etherielin likes this.
  3. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    So basically is this a way of "cheating" the rune manager into get more abilities than the base limit of 8?
  4. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Not specifically. It's more of a way to force combinations of stats/abilities into a single choice. It's useful for abilities that are intended to be taken together (a Charge using and a Charge generating ability, for example), or if we wanted to force a drawback (for example, Ponderous and +2 MAX RNG).
    aseryen and SPiEkY like this.
  5. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    thats actually a pretty great point. wanna know who it'd work great on

    General Korsien
    Etherielin and SPiEkY like this.
  6. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    This would be useful when giving manual discounts for abilities which have horrible synergy, for example corruption and rabid. Also, it should be used mainly for heros imo.
    aseryen likes this.
  7. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I don't think it adds a huge amount of complexity or anything, but it is a new mechanic, and I wonder if it's adding anything that the game really needs. It's not like we have a problem with options in champ selection.

    If you want to go with versatility you could use the existing ability system to create something that is similar, but as activated base abilities rather than upgrades:

    Undecided Dwarf:
    Attack physical
    Choose path: Marauder - This champion has Class: Warbrior, -1 DEF, Fear 3 andManic. All 'choose path' abilities are removed after use.
    Choose path: Duelist - This champion has Class: Monk, Scrapper, +1 SPD, and-3. All 'choose path' abilities are removed after use.
    Choose path: Crusher - This champion has Class: Brute, +5 DMG, Weighty and Strike. All 'choose path' abilities are removed after use.

    It's the same choice but after it is played, which means that can adapt to particular situations (more so if you add more circumstantial abilities to the choice) on the board. Whereas if you use the upgrade system you will always choose the best set for use in all games - and unfortunately there is usually a 'best' upgrade.
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    Pipster and NevrGonaGivUup like this.
  8. Capitulator

    Capitulator I need me some PIE!

    I like it so long as abilities like 'Marauder', 'Crusher' and 'Duelist' are used fairly often. Ideally in a game you would see the 'Crusher' super-ability and instantly know a whole lot about the unit.

    If you don't encounter these super-abilities very often then it will just be bloat. You'd have a ton of extra abilities to scan through (and classes to check) before you could work out what the unit is doing.
    aseryen likes this.
  9. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    Does confused still affect all this stuff? Will it remove classes and stats etc?
    If so cool, buff inhibit power more.

    I think it's a nice idea if it's adding more abilities, because I like more complicated things.
    If it's going to have minor effects on what champs can do and just allow for optional downsides then I think it will be bad. Because then it will merely be a way of separating a champ into multiple different paths rather than allowing versatility.
  10. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I like the flavor of "Path of the: Marauder" type naming Bagerale is exampling. I think it would be really messy these 'multiple' package choices were done on both upgrade paths. I also think it potentially screws up a lot of upgrade path interaction so things like the condition 'confused' or things like bestow/braineater/mimic could be problematic.
  11. Gorebucket

    Gorebucket Forum Royalty

    We already have "packages" like Sonic Flight and racial bundles.

    The new thing would be the decision to make many more bundles for a very specific purpose, which seems fine.

    PS: "Deathstar" package for Lifegiver. Oh, nostalgia...
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Specifically, the idea is to use them in upgrade paths to force combos.
  13. Gorebucket

    Gorebucket Forum Royalty

    Gathered that. Amended above post for clarity.

    I was mostly making the distinction between it being a creative direction versus a change to the existing mechanics.
    Packages exist. Upgrades don't change. More packages may be made specifically for upgrades. Sounds good to me.
  14. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I liked the idea but i always hated the over emphasis on reducing abilities and over simplifying units
  15. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Are you trying to fix existing combo problems, or add more depth by making specific combos less nora (such as abilities with no synergy). Example, whorl with repulsion and knock back have synergy , or xulous with tariff and dark pact do not have synergy. Both could be changed with upgrade system.

    I think it would work better as a limiter on strong runes, or as an enabler on hero runes. It would be a very large task, and would cause a ton of ability bloat if used as an enabler outside of heroes. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I only see it being viable for hero runes, or maybe for class changes as a bandaid fix.

    I think there are two major issues with pox gameplay right now. One is global abilities, and the other is hard counters. I wish you would talk about plans to change those, they both need immediate attention.
  16. RasielCZ

    RasielCZ I need me some PIE!

    I think that this is largely irrelevant unless you include set rotaion.
    At the moment you can just make different champions for the different upgrade paths.
    Badgerales idea is interesting tough.
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    no they don't
    SPiEkY likes this.
  18. demonswish

    demonswish New Member

    Can it somehow be seperate? I know you said it would only be on specific cards but I liked the revamp and what it brought. To me this would have to be in addition to that. an ability in game like intensify; ( After x turns champion gains an ability package, choose one ) and then Have those options mentioned above. Or if you want them to start with it have it when you deploy this champion in a FF ironfist BG choose an ability package.

    What this does for me is take away that bloat you are refering to without actually removing anything. For a new player what you suggested would confuse the hell out of me when 95% of champion runes don't have the ability package option but these few random/legendary? ones do?

    I prefer consistency so picking two abilities is simple and fun for someone who only plays games that have things like talent trees where I get to make my own build. Heck one of the upgrade options could say Ability package: This champion when deployed can pick from 3 classes giving x,y and z.

    edit: x.y and z would have everything you listed in the three options there would just need to be an additional pop up for the player to read and make his decision on what route he wants to go while in game. this does give quite a bit of versatility that I think you were wanting to limit by having it done before the match
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  19. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    That would be cool for heroes and very unique or heavy lore champs. Example would be Frost Queen
  20. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    If we are going to do something like this can we develop some lore to go along with it? Perhaps some graphic content other than rune artwork.

    Distichous are nice because they don't have many and so we can play around with that lore.

    There are only a few Demi-Gods, I suggest having these be Class: Demi-God with the upgrade line that creates an identity for those runes.

    If we are also going with this, player made Runes doesn't seem so far off at shrine lvl100 if gameplay is modeled around creating a Demi-god/Hero for your faction.

    Now that something like this has been suggested I can make a video to better explain some of what I think can be done for newer styled runes.

Share This Page