the maps are somewhat fine, the fonts are 100% fine. i dont think the ones that arent are balancable. there will always be abusive things that cap an opposing or mid font. after writing all the below yea the maps do suck but i dont think anything can be done about it. its like you could make things better for x but then its worse for y. no win situation. i hate some maps where you can rush the opponents font.. these come to mind... IRONFIST PASS - can your first turn deploy a flyer maybe with an on deploy ability that gives you ap, can get the opponents font easily before them, they will play a font down for ages. even if they do this after their first turn, the flyer is usually a better champion than whatever comes to 1v1 it and often wins. SHORES OF MALJARA - incredibly easy for either player to rush the opponents side font, some players dont do this but the ones who do usually win against me. can potentially deploy two champs and send to both fonts, or go opponents first theirs second. even if they deploy to go to their nearest font first turn and second deploy next turn goes to opponents - the right champion (hekation voidraker style with additions) can win or hold even against a stacked opponents font. this is more deck dependant, built to rush, things like keeping the champion alive and in place on death. GROVE OF ASHES - easier now to stop opponent getting to mid font since more runes are drawn at start. things like grim well will mess up your day, among others. i think artillery marker too, spells that bounce you outa font and stun you after hitting walls. etc not as much a problem but relevant to discussion... NORA GLADES - i get rushed here via elsari bazaar and often lose the mid font early or a bit later. i even had that skeleton spell used to block me and one ran to my font (nearest shrine) placed a graveyard relic and capped my font lol. FORSAKEN WASTES - very easy to get steamrolled, i play fw so not the best mellee faction vs rush decks. one good champion that deploys to go opponents font and is hard to kill can mess up my day. SNARLING TANGLE - the absolute worse map (in current rotation) for being on receiving end of relocation spells. its hard to sure up both your fonts on top and bottom. with champion/s, relics and move correctly if the opponent is determined to rush you on both your fonts. anti relic spells make it all worse. NOTE - mostly talking about current rotation maps, the out of rotation maps have problems too. generally relocation spells will mess you up on many more maps, i havent seen them used as much as they once were. also stealth units will obviously mess up your day. one game on RUINS OF VALDAC it took me a couple turns to realize a stealth unit had destroyed my relic and capped my (bottom) font.
when i get rushed players usually use mellee champions to cap my font, champions with min range 1. they are usually tough to kill because of their stats / abilities etc., which is the idea. do you rush an opponents font with ranged units (anything above 1 min range)? then find it difficult to stay within the font to target the enemy champions and also get engaged? i dont. to get them off my font its easier to use my own mellee units because they can contest it as well. fw are one of the worst mellee factions imo.
Gotcha. This also seems common. I'd agree, rushing with individual ranged champions is something that I rarely do or see done. Yeah, this is true. What in tarnation
I sometimes think that you shouldn't be able to deploy at mid fonts. Would still give a benefit for holding it without giving a huge advantage to the player who manages to rush it or cheese their opponent out.
Every map 9 or ten ap is relevant, that's why their are no 9 or 10 speed units. I don't think early rush is a play style, to me it does just feel cheesy. When your opponent caps 2 fonts and is already closing towards your only font then that's quite the problem. You might as well just start the game with less Nora. I agree on making the game less slow though, then again feeling like the game is already lost when I just started isn't very good to attract people either.
this your thread... http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/fw-beater-tier-list.28521/ i find it hillarious your tier 1 are mainly zombies, essence devourer aside and he is an exception and rather specialist in keeping him fed etc. so those are the best mellee that fw have to offer... i play zombies, i play those specific zombies, they are not great, they get beat and die. they are nothing special in the grand scheme of pox. wandering zombie and corragh are not great mellee, they are good font contestors though due to their on death spawns. alt damage which everyone has and wandering zombie dies and usually wanders off, rarer gets stuck, neither is much concern for the enemy champions. corragh for him to have any defence has to move, if he moves when engaged well he cant then attack too, he will lose a 1v1 like this, he goes down like a sack of Bane Shift. sure you get brague? & cory but they are nothing special either and with low health. other factions have much better mellee, stats and abilities. fw in general neither has great attack nor defence.
They are efficient beaters they take a long time to die and can deal good damage for a rather small price (minus coragh) Damage output is not the only valid statistic when you talk about the quality of a beater hence why 4 of those champions are sub 60 nora units.
other factions have better for similar price tags. Afflicted Corpse - if he can even reach the mellee, have enough movement at 2ap a space to engage, then enough for even one 3ap attack unlikely but, rarely ever 2 attacks. Risen Moga - he just dies, he has great offensive attacks and should be kept at a distance ideally, not in the mellee... he always dies far too easy. these are not good mellee / beaters.
Just to note, I think this is something that one easily can -- and should -- position around. Although there is some unfortunate randomness in Wandering, the normal route is totally predictable. Not sure what your gripe is with them mostly being zombies. The list breaks open a lot once you hit t1.5, and you can find all your strikers and utility there if you want it. As for Coragh, his defense is having 110 life with Banner, and being a mixed-mitigation champ already -- he drops multiple champions, one with Resist Physical, and another with Weaken Spells. Bold is a minor part of the champion. Alt range, Death Nova, and >1:1 HP:N even without Banner. That's great. He's certainly a squishy little bugger compared to the other t1 champs, but he still ends up remarkably close to 1:1 HP:N, whether you're running the 52 or 55 build. But come on down to the FW beater tier thread. It's a good time.
my gripe with them being zombies is that i play them and those tier 1's you specify. dont get me wrong its my best deck, i have not tried many different decks tho. but they lose in mellee for me to other factions way better mellee champions. i just hoped fw had better to offer up as tier 1. also the shadcaster with portal dancer is way better, no idea why you placed him in the worst tier. scrapper is such a good ability in other factions. among many other great mellee combinations. your a good player, maybe you could make anything work, im not i lose a lot... using zombies.
I think I put him in 1.5? And people are arguing for t1. I'd agree that the champ with Portal Dancer seems good -- even the best upgrade. With you there. Totally psyched to talk more about FW's melee champions, but don't want to derail this thread too much. We got a good discussion going on over there, so please join in!
