Faction Bonuses - Scale Down?

So for IS i can say only a thing: it should, now more than before, reduce the dmg from AOE instead from spell. Let's say 4 from every AOE effect in FF and 2 in split. 4 could be a low but will help much more against phalanx style hate, where IS is actually came back.


For FW i saw the suggestion the replace the faction bonus with boon and viceversa but the only thing i can say is that the CD reduction is the most important thing for FW. Cd reduction and UT.


Edit:The little zealot in me that sometimes go out and say something stupid would say that with the IS new font bonus the new IS faction bonus should be -6 Aoe dmg. But don't listen to zealot.

 

( Sorry long post)

Really? Well I'm curious as to why not? I'm suggesting that the faction bonus related flavor be instead redistributed to their champions design templates or rune design templates. Splits would be pulling those runes/champions into their bg and by association bringing in those redistributed bonuses. The ones from faction A has that factions associated traits and the same for faction B. It cuts out the situation where X factions runes cant work in splits since they require the flat faction bonus such as KF ( supposedly) and it also keeps issues where Y faction rune gets a bonus they were not designed around such as SL's 1-% damage reduction on some burly tanky unit from another faction or a damage boost on whatever from UD from happening.

I'm not suggesting stats as a bonus exactly as that's rather limiting ( I was suggesting races have set stat templates though as a side idea) but rather whatever the bonus conceptually grants be passed on to design instead of as a bonus.

FW = greater access to cooldown reduction/bypass abilities on their champions and runes in their faction, equally they could also have access to ways to prolong the other players champions cooldowns .

FS = greater access to abilities that modify nora gen rates/gen nora themselves or even restrict nora flow to the other player on their champions/runes i.e. marsh song and nora drain for examples.

SP= Would like wise have more champions bringing spawns/summons/swarms/ or simply abilities that provide champion related discounts/refunds (call/ call to arms like abilities/ whole runes).

IS= Champions/runes would have a greater access to abilities that mitigate spell use/effects. There are loads of them already that if used more heavily in faction could replace the current bonus quite effectively and in new ways/effectively for different themes.

KF= Higher speed potential through stats ( again racial templates would simplify this) and abilities that enable faster play such as ap gen or speed buffs ( temporary/permanent) or even mobility based abilities like well mobility/escape/pounce/etc could be used as a suitable replacement. They could even deal with limiting those aspects for the other player a bit to really get that " on average we are faster" vibe across.

SL= Simply higher levels of defense and access to more defensive abilities ( or at reduced prices) could easily replace the bonus.

UD= Damage, higher values and more damage boosting abilities being available to the faction ( or again reduced ability prices).

ST= Hp, higher values again and also increased ways to increase hp totals. It's most likely the one most redundant but you can get away with that by how you would go about keeping them alive compared to SL.

Thats just a quick rundown so I am sure its easy to tear apart/make better but the concept is, imo, simple and good. Racial stat templates could work for all the races to help with this as the UD/ST/SL factions are all variants or mutations from the base races. So they would just get higher or lower specific values ( for a price, reduced or otherwise) compared to the base races i.e human/dwarf/elf. The factions with stat bonuses would have their own playstyles/themes which would grant them access to ability types more so then other factions as well but its less apparent in their bonuses as to what they would be.

 

now would be easier than later. just as it would have been easier earlier than it is now. but its not like we currently have a vast playerbase who are addicted to the way things are at this moment. worst case you'd upset a handful of zealots in each faction who will keep playing anyway.

a change of this sort is like building infrastructure. its always going to be a pain but you benefit in the long run. maybe the reason why pox has had to be revamped so many times is because there wasn't a solid foundation on how champs should be designed in the first place. why perpetuate that mistake?

this isn't mtg. you cant just design whatever and then rotate the old stuff out. iow the latest expansion does not reset the champ design model each time because all of those older champs are still here.

 

Well this is spooky. I was driving to work today thinking about this very topic. I was toying with the idea of posting a thread on it and decided against it because I thought it would just get shot down.

Factions bonuses are good because they add flavor to the game but some have such a large impact on the game that it offers an unfair advantage. Originally the factions that had weaker faction bonuses had stronger font bonuses (IS and FW.) The issue with this format was that splits could take the font bonus and have an additional bonus on top and inevitably they have begun to change.

Edit: I think the SL bonus is being underrated if it is going to just stay the same.

 

Just wanted to step in and pick up on this.

I completely disagree. What makes SL bonus so unique is that it also affects bombs, cones, all sorts of attacks and scales better against higher damage champs.
Think of it as a version of tough that scales vs your opponents damage but doesn't stop spell/relic/equip damage or DoTs.

Because of how the mechanic currently behaves, it's hard to just replace it with defense or defensive stats. Unless your goal is too change the mechanic of the SL bonus. Although I've grown rather fond of the SL bonus over the years.

I don't think anyone who knows what they're doing underrates the SL bonus, even in it's current form it's incredibly potent. Obviously it will be really powerful if most other bonusses get nerfed or changed.

 

I like the power of the faction bonusses and what they represent.

In terms of balance, it would probably be a step forward to scale them all* down.
In terms of interesting gameplay, probably not.

I do approve of the changes to the KF and FW faction bonus though.




*if anything, SL bonus could be less powerful too if everyone gets hit. Although this will leave the faction as a whole significantly weaker than other factions, as SL probably crutches the most on it's bonus to stay strong.

 

I dont think butchering the bonuses will do any good, less impact of bonuses would promote playing splits more since the only defining factor for a faction would be heroes.
From there we are just a step away from reintroducing circus.

 

FS FF: 4 Nora on your turn
FS Split: 2 Nora on your turn

ST FF: 6 HP
ST Split: 3 HP

IS FF: 6 Damage Reduction from Spells
IS Split: 3 Damage Reduction from Spells

KF FF: +1 Speed every other round for ranged
KF Split: +1 Speed every other round for melee

UD FF: Keep same
UD Split: Keep same

SL FF: Keep same
SL Split: Keep same

FW FF: 30%
FW Split: 15%

SP FF: 4% Nora on deploy
SP Split: 8% nora on deploy

 

I'm not convinced that splits should get any bonus, since they've got a larger rune pool to work with.

 

I kinda liked how some were 5/2. The splits get something but slightly less than half of a whole. Getting slightly less than a full bonus kinda offsets the larger rune pool.

 

Would the FW bonus be a percentage return a la current SP or a flat return a la old Death Harvester?

 

I think the idea is ok. The new kf bonus is good and less problematic than the current one.

But i would put the split bonus exactly at a half, like KPIC is suggesting. It is true that splits have a larger rune pool, but they have less space for the tools of a certain faction or theme.. for example if you build a split fire deck, you cannot put all the good stuff for fire in ud, but you have to chose...
I think it is fair to have split bonus that is exactly a half of the full faction one (and it is also simpler to learn).

 

I like KPIC's idea on KF's one, still retain them as the highest speed in game

But instead of +1SPD every other round, why not just use the current split bonus?
KF FF: +1 maximum AP for ranged
Split : +1 maximum AP for Melee

or even a mix of both KPIC's and Sok's
+2 max AP for 3+ max range
+1 max AP for 3+ max range

 

For UD And KF I'd prefer something that affects all champions. The current selections give KF melee and UD range nothing.

 

Also, what about aiming for a strength ratio of 100% to 33% for FF/Split. For example, IS gets a 6/2 damage reduction on spells. Of course, this may not be possible for all factions

 

As a newer player, anything that has a % makes the learning curve of the game that much steeper. If the faction bonus would be changed, all I would really like to see is some kind of flat numbers to remember. PLEASE no more %s!

Also giving KF bonus damage on range is fine except Arroweater sure is getting thrown around allot. How about you give KF a Meleeeater champ

 

to me sounds like we dont really need factions at all any longer, every faction has Everything already? In old pox the faction used to be a big difference in what you could do. Now not any longer. Also this all sounds like an excuse how to nerf the KF faction bonus away. Seems all keep basically what they do now except KF, who gets half the UD bonus. Count how many ranged units in KF as a % in games, then Count how many melee in UD as %, then you understand even if same dmg, its still better for ud to have 1-2 rng units only, than it is for kf to have 3+ units only.