Faction Bonuses - Scale Down?

invent the unlike button for me.

Because I like the bonuses as they are now. Except for the SL one because the damage reduction is so great and "hard" to calculate.

 

Broad reply now. Comments within the quote in RED.

 

Flat numbers for SP bonus would be something like
Split = When deploy champion, gain 1 Nora for each 30 Nora it cost
Full = When deploy champion, gain 1 Nora for each 15 Nora it cost
(These are just examples)

 

I'm no math wiz, but isn't that effectively a 3.33%/6.67% refund on deployed champions? So you're really just expressing a percentage as a ratio or some crap math math math?

Also, KF getting mini-flanking doesn't make much sense to me. KF getting a mini-Hit-and-Run effect would be more appropriate.

 

He did say they were just examples.

My issue with flat numbers is the unit that costs 59 nora being stuffed.

 

My point being that a ratio is just a percentage wearing a less sexy outfit. An actual "flat" reduction wouldn't scale and would probably be impossible to balance.

 

ty ^^

I still think the FW bonus needs to be more generic, but I can accept that my current suggestion for the faction is "messy". (was just the only example of a more generic style for them I could think of ^^)

 

It would just need to start were they currently round now. If it was 1/25 and 1/50 it would be the same as the current faction bonus. However if they round up/down it would need to be tweaked.

 

Just throwing this out there.....the UD faction bonus was already nerfed once. How about we touch the bonus's that haven't been touched and see what that does for balance. Pretty soon there will be no lines, factions, or reasons to play a specific faction. It will be more about themes than factions. I like the idea of themes within a faction. But the key is within a faction. Why have a UD theme that specializes in range? Or a KF theme that specializes in dmg? At that point why not bring back circus? I disagree that design space is limited. Your creativity maybe...but the possibility is not.

 

We have long moved passed the point where each faction had narrow tactical differences and so any bonus that is not wholly generic will force design space to be crimped to accommodate a bonus the rune hardly benefit from (see 95% of FW currently). If we are in the business of making bonuses more generic in order to accommodate more design space, bg building space and splits (which will require a mini revamp I am sure), then why note just dustbin the whole thing? Answer will be: faction x is as it is because of bonus x, some strategy only possible because of x, can't be replicated by changes, inevitable fear that preferred runes will be shoeboxed etc. Understood. To me, that just speaks to a need and a desire for certain types of abilities or global effect spells/abilities/relics etc to be introduced that change the rules of the game in some way (skull of decay, frost amp). So FW needs a champ or relic that allows for numeric nora gain per champ dead and reduced cooldown for meat, but unshackles every other theme from a "bonus" they pay for but do not receive..

 

+1

 

My concern with keeping SL bonus the same is that, it is very difficult to distinguish the damage that an SL unit will take. The opponent is always having to guess whether it will kill the SL champ or not with that % bonus defense.

 

I would like to see the overall design intent for the FW bonus.

When the runedock went from 20 to 30 runes our bonus took an inadvertent hit. It has been discussed again and again from designer to designer to revamp the FW bonus. However, nothing has ever been done so what our current bonus is now is accepted as the norm. Some point out that FW has boon, but in parts of this thread I hear you say this may go away as well.

So before I can give a definitive opinion on this, I would kind of like to know what the current visualization for the FW bonus (new bonus, reduced bonus, etc.) and boon (or lack there of and possible enhancements to champs) is -- not that we have not been waiting three or four years for a change.

 

I would prefer, regardless of the change to FW, that they start by scrapping the old bonus completely. No tweaking, just let it die... and uh, don't let it apply to itself.

 

I really like this idea.

Not sure why anyone would want to keep the SL bonus the way it is. Making is a straight +2/+1 def seems like the way to go. It tones it down while simplifying it at the same time. Good stuff.

 

You can't compare 5 hp ( ST bonus) with 4 dmg (UD bonus) for example cuz offensive bonus is better.
Imagine you have a use counter for every time you use bonus.
Ok now you deploy your champion with ST and get 1 use counter
Now you put UD champion and he attacks 1 time that's 1 use counter 2 times that's 2 use counter 3 times that's 3 use counter and on and on.
I can't stack hp with my ST bonus but he can stack dmg.
You keep mixing defensive and offensive stats and you can't mix those cuz they work differently , and you can put more use from this current offensive bonuses then defensive.

 

How would you feel about the mini-enrage?
UD: Mini Enrage - Damaged units gain +1/3 damage for 2 turns.

Less overall damage by far, since it means if you manage to focus one unit, the bonus is reduced and if he can force you into multiple fights, it's better.
(By damaged, it means hit by something, not below max hp ^^)

 

Much better idea

 

FW changes dramatically if there is not a consistent and cheap access to CDR. One proposal of which I would be fully in favor would be shifting the reduced cool downs to be a component of Boon.