Faction Bonuses - Scale Down?

So that they get 2 faction bonuses?

 

Tbh the reduced cooldowns could be, as someone mentioned, turned into a theme specific bonus.
If you plan on cheap meat, it would be nicer to have a relic that specifically reduces the cooldown of cheaper units.
Or better, a passive support ability that does it on a champion.

The general idea is that it only supported one type of BG. The best solution seems to be to make sure it only really happens in that type of BG.
Overall, reduced cooldowns were never really that useful once the runedock became 30. This is why the bonus was supplemented with Boon, which is likely to be removed.


FW Bonus Idea:
Crippling strike - The first successful attack made by a unit each round reduces the target's damage by 2/1 and defense by 1/0 for 2 turns.

Pretty mild. single target damage reduction in split. In FF it reduces damage more and essentially allows everyone else who attacks that unit to deal 1 extra. Could maybe go to 3/2 for damage since it's only one unit per round.

 

To be fair...isnt this the same reasoning one could use for the IS font bonus being changed? That happened and for the same good reasons.

 

If we are toning down and simplifying why not a straight +2/+1 bonus for UD

 

I agree that faction bonuses should be toned down.

About each proposed one:
FS: numbers seem too low
ST: nice, should be balanced out with UD's
KF: don't like at all; all runes in a faction should benefit from faction bonus. Flanking is meh, we can do much better
UD: same as KF reasoning, imo flat dmg to everyone is ok and should be balanced on ST's HP values
SL: flat armor/dmg reduction, not %
FW: Remove BotU, fix races, and then this should be great
SP: never liked the SP faction bonus, I think we can do much better (it looks moga-oriented, what about clops voil slime etc); if anything it's ok

Keep in mind you need to take care of the 4 main splits too (tigers turtles scrap and cats), and see how the bonuses will interact with them

 

This is copied from another thread, but is highly relevant here too:

Personally, i would prefer if they keep KF champs at "normal" base speed and base cost, meaning in FF KF most champs have 1 more speed than they naturally should have if they were from another faction. It would make it easier to play KF splits and would also make the speed bonus more visible and probably less effektive. It would also stop those meat KF cheap BGs as all champs would be normally costed. The core issue with KF is not the speed bonus (as can be seen from the EF compared to UD spell logic) but the champion design. Somehow the designers try to nullify the KF speed bonus by giving KF less nora cost instead of more speed. This was NOT the intention of the faction bonus in first place. For that we have SP and moga. The KF issue is entirely on the designers who "try" to follow the meta kid complaints and design KF with lower speed but in effect by that only creat the real KF problem. Let the elfs be normally expensive but uber quick in speed. UD is allowed to have uber dmg, SP does not have their nora costs i creased by adding HP to compensate for the nora bonus cost, ST does not have their HP lowered to compensate for the HP buff. To do this **** only with KF is just because the meta kids dont like that u can win by brain, not patience, with KF and the designers just follow blindly.

I hereby suggest all champs should be designed based on how they look in split, not how they look in FF. This would nullify many of the problems we see now. And if this gives some super advantage on some maps due to speed, try to correct maps instead of ruining the faction themse.

 

This maybe somewhat offtopic but it works within the comparisons between FF/Split play.

Why not have banners be an intrinsic bonus if you play 30 of one rune's faction? Have 30 KF runes in the BG and all KF champions gain +1Dmg/+5Hp, it has the side benefit of opening up another slot in FF BG's since everyone and their uncle includes a damn banner.

 

all this talk about 'toning it down'. here we have an opportunity to make a significant change for the betterment of the game and all you people can come with is to make the current numbers slightly smaller. who does that really satisfy? if bonuses are a problem, WHY are they a problem? Then FIX that problem. Don't just make it smaller.

 

First let's keep shoeboxing runes like strategist then we'll focus on revolutionizing the game

 

EXACTLY what i tried to say. The reason for this thread seems mainly KF, nerf KF and make it look like all got nerfed, so there is less complaint and still meta kids are happy. Well as stated before, problem with KF FF is that those designers follows the meta kids screaming and try to prenerf KF Champs to be as slow as the rest, resulting instead to create KF as some kind of MOGA. KF is suppose to not have the nora advantag, but the speed advantage. Dont be afraid to let them have it and all will be just fine. And if there are some issues on a few maps, correct those maps then.

 

would prefer a change of faction bonus for FS rather than a reduction. Nora miner would make the bonus fairly redundant at 3.

 

I've been playing Pox since before the Grimlic expansion, and over the years the factions have lost a lot of their differentiation. Once upon a time, UD champs unquestionably had the highest DMG output, ST clearly had the highest HP champs, and no one could match the cheap cost of SP champs. There were real differences between the factions beyond cosmetics. That's slowly eroded. Champs began to be designed to take the faction bonuses into account. Champs in KF had lower base SPD, and non-ST champs began starting with more HP, etc.

I'm a big believer in the move towards subthemes as faction differentiation- I think it was really smart to take the moga concept and run with it across the board. But these subthemes have become the only real non-cosmetic differentiations between the factions, and that's a mistake in my opinion.

Faction bonuses have always been a huge part of differentiation. That's why they have always had a big red target on their backs. No one wants another faction to have something theirs does not. But that's because players want power. Game designers want balance and diversity. Even though people may bemoan pieces of the big picture, they ultimately appreciate that bigger picture (even though they often don't realize how crucial those bemoaned pieces are to that whole).

We've already hit faction bonuses with a nerf bat several times over the years- which much of the current player base probably doesn't realize. Let's stop there before our factions lose even more of their content and character.

 

yea but then now you forget UD has no other boost (other than battlemaster )that also need to be considered before changing UD FF/SF bonus
also 1/3 for FF what about SF ?

 

The font bonus would have to change for KF but what about...

FF- Disengaging from an opposing champion costs 3 AP less. This effect triggers once per champion per turn.
SPLIT- Disengaging from an opposing champion costs 1 AP less. This effect triggers once per champion per turn.

This would make it so a champion in FF KF could disengage for 0 AP (instead of 3). A champion in a KF SPLIT could disengage for 2 AP (instead of 3). As a note, a champion with mobility still takes 1 AP to disengage and so a FF KF champion would have a benefit even over Mobility. This speed bonus is only in effect when a champion is engaged, though.

 

This is actually quite do-able I like this suggestion

 

I think its fine because of the 0 AP clause.

 

My only problem with it is that it makes Mobility itself entirely pointless.

 

That's true. If it weren't too OP, it could be programmed so that a champion in KF with Mobility would end up generating AP by disengaging. Moving one space with Mobility would cost 1 AP and then the FF bonus would subtract 3 AP, resulting in +2 AP for disengaging. With that said, Mobility would almost have to universally be removed from KF (and the font bonus changed).

Anyway, just an idea.

 

Engage, disengage. Repeat for infinite cash-err, AP.

 

I am not sure wether the idea with Shrine Abilities instead of a faction bonus is so bad and no tells me or did no one read it? Please could someone comment on so I can get it out of my mind?