Playing a game and my opponent used the ability feezing chains on my corrupted guardian with unstoppable. According to the unstoppable text, the champ with unstoppable can't be slowed. My corrupted guardian remained at 5 speed from my opponents ability until I used ancient corruption. I'm guessing unstoppable doesn't notice the ability frozen as a slowing affect, and that's the issue here.
But unstoppable provides immunity against slowed, were getting into a very gray area here if this is how abilities are gonna work. It should list all versions of slow that don't work or don't even put slow on unstoppable or unstoppable should block it all. Pox is already too complicated without people having to decipher things like this mid-game.
slowed is a condition. itself. slowing is not just any effect that lowers speed its a specific effect https://poxbase.com/effect/40 https://poxbase.com/effect/38
I think it's a perfectly valid complaint as far as unintuitive ability/condition interactions go, but this kind of change has got to be pretty low as far as coding priorities go. Every so often, Sok does a consolidation pass (like he's doing now with attack ability interactions) so I'd recommend you hold onto this complaint until he does do one of these batch changes, and in the meantime you can play the game with a little bit of knowledge about game mechanics that maybe your opponent isn't aware of.
If were going by text descriptions then it should indeed stop slowed, as the unstoppable condition says this champion cannot be stunned, slowed, etc. I don't see anywhere in that description where it says Unstoppable- this champion cannot be stunned, slowed unless it's by frozen or some other ability that causes slowed These are things that can not only cost games in pox with how crucial ap management is, but will frustrate the living hell out of any new player.
frozen and slowed are different conditions. its not being slowed its being frozen. it wont frustrate any player who can read
WAI. Slowed is one of the conditions that Unstoppable prevents, and Frozen is not. Frozen does not cause Slowed, thus it is not affected. The description of Unstoppable clearly reads that it prevents Slowed, and does not mention Frozen because it does not prevent Frozen. It seems unlikely that someone reading Unstoppable will think, "It absolutely must mean that it prevents Frozen even though it doesn't say Frozen because Frozen kind of sounds like Slowed!" Note that Unstoppable also doesn't prevent a number of other SPD reduction effects: Awestruck Shrunken Devolved Drain Vitality Autophobia Bear Kinship Frost Stance Conduit: Speed Reallocate: Speed Stall etc. ~ Now, if the argument is that Unstoppable should prevent all forms of effects which include a SPD reduction because "Slowed" implies it cannot have its SPD reduced, then it'd become far more powerful than it currently is and has ramifications will beyond Frozen.
It'd also affect many other abilities, such as Ferocious Bite: When this champion makes a successful basic attack, that champion has -5 DMG for 2 turns. This does not stack. If the target is Slowed or Illuminated, that champion also gains 2 stacks of Sundered (This unit has -1 DEF. This condition stacks) for 3 turns. Are we suggesting that this reads as though it should trigger off of Frozen, Awestruck, and Drain Vitality? What about Kill Sense? Enemy champions within 5 spaces with 50% or less HP are Slowed. This champion gains +1 SPD and +2 DMG for every Slowed enemy champion within 5 spaces. Are people constantly confused about why Kill Sense doesn't also cause Frozen and doesn't trigger off Stall and Shrunken?
Another way to put this is: Frozen is not a "version" of Slowed and there is nothing in the game that would suggest that it is. And neither are any of the other SPD impacting abilities/effects, e.g. Shrunken is not a "version" of Slowed, etc.
Now, if you want an ability that prevents all SPD changes... That would be Stability, which reads: This champion's SPD cannot be changed from its base value. This ability doesn't care where or how the SPD is changing, it prevents the change. So this would cover any effect that would impact SPD, including both Slowed and Frozen, but also Haste and Empowered: Speed, etc. Notice this ability doesn't exhaustively list all potential effects of SPD - because there is a ton of them.
If Unstoppable was meant to stop all SPD reduction, it'd say that. Instead, it reads that it stops a specific condition: Slowed. Now, if Unstoppable read the following, it'd absolutely be a bug: This champion cannot be <condition value=stunned>Stunned</condition>, <condition value=ensnared>Ensnared</condition>, <condition value=paralyzed>Paralyzed</condition> or <condition value=rooted>Rooted</condition>, and is immune to <mechanic value=knockback>Knockback</mechanic>. This unit is also immune to any effects that cause a reduction of SPD or loss of AP. And it'd also be an extremely powerful ability since it'd prevent a ton more stuff.
It contradicts itself, it makes no sense and trying to rationalize this way versus fixing it seems silly. If it only stops slowed and not abilities that cause slowed then put that in there.
I can see how "plain English" reading can lead to some incorrect conclusions sometimes, but this is why the condition is flagged as a condition with a description, and is capitalized and bolded. All of these things signal to the reader/player that it is not a normal English term, but is a specific term in gameplay. Frozen, meanwhile, reads differently: (I notice the Knockback mechanic description is old/wrong.)
The reality is that you could interpret a ton of stuff wrong in this manner if you so choose... it's a rabbit hole. You could argue that Unstoppable should stop Lumbering, or that the champion does not spend AP on movement and can move infinitely, or that a champion with Ice Eater should be able to walk thru Ice Blocks or a champion with Fire Eater should literally consume lava and make it disappear. You could argue that Arrow Eater shouldn't prevent all ranged damage, just ones from Attack: Arrow, or that Chilled and Frozen shouldn't be 2 separate conditions because they mean or less the same thing... If the ability read "immune to slowing effects" or even "immune to slowed" I would certainly say, yes, we should clarify that and make it say "Immune to Slowed" and link Slowed as a condition, but it already is that way in this case.
It says it prevents condition of Slowed (-2 SPD) - which is 100% true. It will prevent any and all sources of Slowed - provided they actually cause Slowed and not some other SPD reduction effect - from any source: abilities, spells, relics, etc. Neither Frozen, nor any of the other SPD reduction effects, caused the specific condition of Slowed. Again, if the ability read "Immune to SPD reduction effects," I'd agree with you, but it doesn't.
I am not sure what you want me to fix... you believe the description should list out everything that it doesn't prevent? This champion cannot be <condition value=stunned>Stunned</condition>, <mechanic value=slowed>Slowed</mechanic>, <condition value=ensnared>Ensnared</condition>, <condition value=paralyzed>Paralyzed</condition> or <condition value=rooted>Rooted</condition>, and is immune to Knockback. This unit is also immune to any effects that cause the loss of AP, but is not immune to Frozen, Awestruck, Shrunken, Drain Vitality, Reallocate: Speed, Conduit: Speed, Frost Stance, Ranged Stance, Autophobia, Blinded, consumption of AP due to using it to attack/move/using abilities, Grounded, impeding terrain, Lumbering, Weighty...? I mean, doesn't THAT seem a little silly? And if the problem is JUST Frozen, why is it JUST Frozen?
Maybe we need to clarify it in another way. It's clear you feel that Frozen is a version of Slowed for some reason - why do you think this is the case and how can we clarify that the 2 conditions are distinct conditions and do not have relation to each other? And does this "versioning" idea also happen with other conditions? Do you consider Stalled or Awestruck to be another "version" of Slowed? If so, why? If not, why not? What about something like Distracted vs Stunned? These answers will help me understand where the underlying confusion is.
