Shrine exertion, the ability has no drawback if you can drop a relic behind your shrine as a counter

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by super71, Apr 3, 2023.

  1. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    that is all
     
  2. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    "Relics can only be placed adjacent to champions you control." is a rule pox badly needs but not every game can be well made.

    I'd phrase it a bit more positively but I'm the type to run Unstable Powersource in everything because of it.



    PS: I've never had the time to bother writing an "essay" about it, but maps are too big and it's the main cause of a lot of symptoms in Pox.
     
    vipoid and super71 like this.
  3. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Dang, that would honestly solve a couple problems, and seems like an easy solution. I'm just tired of global everything, the problem with many fw relics, and fw abilities is they don't have a range at all. Dark healing, tariff, unholy tomb, tome of hate, curse, pain curse, festering wounds, chopping block etc. It's impossible to counter something when it is untouchable 30 spaces back, or isn't even on the board.
     
  4. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    It's not meant to be 30 spaces away, OR if it is, it's supposed to be a big tempo hit whose counterplay is that you get to push around the opponent if your nora went into the frontline. Looping us back to "maps are too big".
     
  5. vipoid

    vipoid I need me some PIE!

    Oh yeah, there are a lot of maps where it takes forever to get to the enemy shrine. Apart from anything else, it means you can know full well that you've won the game, yet still end up playing for another 30 minutes to actually get said win. It's especially noticeable against AI as there's no surrender mechanic. So even if it's clear they don't have a hope in hell, you still have to go through the motions anyway. It's very tedious.
     
  6. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Actually, I believe that's one of the more tolerable things which are STILL bad, out of all of them. Yes if I clearly won, being forced to drag it out for 15-30 more minutes annoys me, but if the person on the other side is actually using the time to get better at the game, I suppose it's not so bad. (Pretty sure most of them are just trolling judging by the amount of suspiciously well timed end of fight disconnects, also commonly known as ragequits.)

    However, it causes some really powerful effects on the game as a whole. For example, because it's generally so hard to mount an attack on the Shrine (which is the winning condition for those of you who may have understandably forgotten), any bg which is actually specialized at killing the Shrine comes off as gimmicky/cheesy or meant to frustrate. In fact, it DRAWS in players who specifically want to be frustrating in specific ways. This isn't strictly because of map size, just mostly.

    Doesn't that strike you as odd even a little bit? A game designed such that following the most direct path possible toward winning it, is considered the cheesy/gimmicky thing? Did you know in other games we call that the FOO (First Order Optimal) because it's the most natural thing to try first AND it continues to work reasonably at most levels of skill, you just add layers to it. To put it in perspective, in most games, Nora Freeze would be a staple spell.

    So because of the map size, what happens is it pushes most BGs to either the middle or the extreme. Either they all conform to this mid map dragged out skirmish for field dominance, or they focus on the cheesy.
    It's also just dumb as a matter of principle if nothing else. "If you follow the main rule you're cheesing."


    But wait, there's more! Spells like Vortex, Divinity Touch etc. are way way powerful because of how long it takes to get anywhere. If you were playing a card game, you'd get a spell that lets you bounce an opposing creature to hand and that'd be it. One turn, possibly some tempo on your side in exchange for a cost. In Pox you get 2-4 turns of a missing creature (depends on map and situation), you get the tempo advantage but you also get the deployment advantage because you're snatching a font. This isn't a problem EXCEPT for the fact that snatching fonts is the be all end all of Pox. As the player who lost the font to this play, you're supposed to make a difficult but valid decision between going back into the font, or shifting your footing to attacking the shrine. Not realistic in actual Pox. All redeployment style options are both incredibly powerful and incredibly frustrating simply because it takes you so long and because there's no choices for the player getting hit by it.

    On the subject of global effects/relics, we touched on in previous posts.
     
  7. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Also, if you were wondering, HP:Nora ratios being so important is also because of map size. And so is my failed marriage. And anything else I can blame on it.
     
    BurnPyro and super71 like this.
  8. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Ah, but the problem is, it should be a tempo hit, but many factions have runes now that can be deployed efficiently for 50-55 nora, and they aren't garbage champs either. So essentially dropping an unholy tomb, is rarely a loss in most regards.
     
  9. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I've always had a problem with spells like vortex, divinity touch, even things like drown and vertical push irk me. They irk me because the significance of losing a 75+ nora champ is often times a game breaker. Sure drown costs 80 nora, but if you can spend 80 nora to get a font (12 nora)- and kill an 80 nora unit, and then most importantly map control. Also fs craps out nora these days. It's also very hard to quantify losing a unit in pox, and the actual value of a champion.

    I've been using divinity touch lately, not because I want to, but pox just has so many gimmick runes that can make a rampaging monster unstoppable for a period of time. Also power creep is pretty bad lately, too many units smacking for 15+ damage from 7 spaces away. Simply put, pox bg sizes aren't large enough to counter every bg, and some bgs are so strong that without a specific counter it's a wash, not even mentioning splits. A bloodthirsty blade on a strong damage champion if your not playing fw is a game changer, no shatter or disarms, prepare to get wrecked by that rampaging vothsair.

    I agree though, I think a large part of why the game takes so long, and why most melee champs feel useless for me anyways is map size. Won't get into certain maps that have severe disadvantages if you don't draw an early flying unit.
     
  10. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I've noticed that most champs have over 60+ health nowadays, granted I guess they have to considering how high damage has become.
     

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