Sok can you seriously just come out and say NO we are not changing the FW bonus and end the *****ing and moaning. please
That actually got me thinking along a related rout. Someone mentioned (apologize) for having cooldown reduction effect all runes not just champs. People immediately said it would be too powerful blah blah and why? Because in a spells case you actually do get that utility flexibility people cite for champs. However this is because spells/relics/equips have an Immediate effect in combat while champions in the vast majority of instances do not. Champs indeed have a presence but after getting deployed have a bake time to get back into battle, so that utility is there I don't deny it but it's deceptive and not as strong as people are making it out to be. Is creativity a good ability? Well the thing that concerns me is that it can effectively stack and provide an avenue for spells to have 0 cooldown to make way for some possible future combo but otherwise it is an O.K. ability now. I'd rather it just give spells a non-stacking % cooldown reduction. Here is a question though, Is craft a good ability? That's 0 cooldown. Here is another question craft and creativity are all in KF wtf.
Not really a fan of full or split faction bonuses anymore it limits diversity and creates a lot of staple and crutch runes. Remove all bonuses and start making champs with unique upgrades according to their faction. Example: give k'thir more dodge and speed abilities Give fs more leap and water abilities Give ud something that isn't shitty Give fw champs more on death effects and abilities Put more emphasis on terrain and make more abilities for terrain, poxnora is a strategy BOARD game yet the only aspect I see used is the card aspect. You could be putting turrets in maps, high terrain that adds range or low terrain that adds cover. Make it a strategy game not a draw win game.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Creativity isn't good on the Jellebrium (I personally think it's fine on him), but I am just asking about Creativity in relation to the FW bonus since they seem to do similar things. That said, I think what you answered does makes sense from that context and why, despite being similar, FW does not benefit from the bonus in quite the same way, though the "nora availability" argument does still hold true to some extent - reduced CDs don't matter if you don't have the nora to pay for the things. Even in the case of nora generating spells/effects, we should be talking about the net cost/benefit of that action relative to other actions. Ultimately, everything you do in the game is to generate some kind of advantage. In any case, the point was less about Creativity and more to facilitate the current discussion on the FW bonus.
Creativity basically becomes exceptionally good when combined with nora generation for the simple fact that in order to cast spells that come off of cooldown you need nora. With champs this is exceptionally so because bgs essentially run 15+ champs at a minimum which means you will always have champs available to cast but not nora. Can the FW bonus be useful? yes but this would require low cost hi return efficient champs that generate either high end effect or nora. These tend to get nerfed hard because then it synergizes too much with the bonus. So you're left with champs that don't synergize with the bonus because that's too good. Examples being a carrionling at sub 30 nora. Yes you can then go into SL not getting high def or KF not getting hi spd but they aren't paying for it and getting combat stats that effect the game in a nominal way. This also is a pain to design around as well since it relates strictly to the nora of the champion. Take Dark Messanger... it sucks even though it's nora generation which should be a premium do to the bonus.
53 nora essence devourer + 45 nora graveyard = 98 nora He is definately efficient even though he crutches hard on graveyard spawning out real champs that leave globes for dead eaters to capture and recoup that cost. His synergy I would argue is more with that bg synergy then the cooldown bonus especially if you run two. Yes you would get more utility running one but then you're getting less consistency. The utility is there and a few champs do use the cooldown bonus to good effect but those are a minority not a majority to the faction.
Lets do this song and dance again, then: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/ravenwraith-bg.19348/#post-257461 I would never run this champ outside of FW. I'm skeptical of even running it in a split. (In case the numbers in the fourth paragraph aren't eminently clear: Devour Life +35 effective nora, Graveyard -45, each subsequent Devourer deploy gets +35, but Graveyard is already out, so no -45 this time. Value therefore goes -10, +25, +60, +85... for each Devourer deployed.)
Very well written summation kalasle. He has a 4 turn cooldown and is in the sweet spot for where the bonus actually is effective on champs (the lower 30%). As for splitting with them this turns into a 7 cooldown which you agree basically kills the engine. Yeah 7 cooldown is the land of most FW champs. There is some potential with splitting with KF due to ressurect effectively putting them at 0 cooldown or running things like Necroweave and/or hurry. Or gravetend but yes I see that the efficiency lies in redeploying that one champ to capitalize on not having to repay the 45 for graveyard. Let's also not forget that the reason it probably is not an issue is that there is a crap ton of relic hate at the moment with seism which craps allllll over essense devourer.
Yeah, I think most people don't want to worry about playing around Seism, and doing so can require some weird technical plays. Devourer decks usually end up with some unstable draws. It's possible, though, and screening Graveyard with Banner/Skull makes it worth it.
In my opinion it's a fun bg option to 'catch' people for awhile but after that can be hated out pretty easily. The thing I dislike about the bonus being so closely tied to nora is that it relies heavily on how the champ is designed/built in order for it to be useful. If everything was a flat 4 CD/8 CD then yeah maybe this would at least help even out the reliance on 30% of the champs for effective use. Another option would be increasing the % of the CD reduction to help put more champs into that lower CD category (%80/%40). 4 turn Xulos is pretty scary but with 3 gravetend champions now available that's pretty much available now anyway except at 0CD. Speaking of time to dust off that skeleton bg and throw some toll-takers in there.
