Thought experiment - 2 option runes.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by calisk, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Been playing alot of games that subverts customization by giving the player 2 options on a reversable card.

    for example in Roll players when you randomly draw your class you can choose to either play A version of the class or the B version

    for example cleric or paladin is the white card class, while druid or ranger is the green.

    so was curious if pox had gone that way if player would of prefered it to the current upgrade system we have now, as honestly very rarely are the options all that appealing usually the options are obvious or even forced in the case of some champs.

    here's an example of what i'm talking about I suppose

    for example...

    Tracker Gnark
    Side A) same as he is currently
    Side B) Risen Gnark
    faction st/fw
    split hero for st/fw with some undead characteristics.


    Side A - veteran Side same as we have now
    Side B - Non-hero 1x version with lower stats and abilities.

    soul painter
    side A - focused on the mimicry nora gen build
    Side B - psychic focused build focused on CC.

    side A)lazy in throne version
    side B) walks around version.

    Pros -
    - easier for the devs to balance to a degree as they effectively only need to consider 2 rune builds, as opposed to 9 possible upgrade combinations.
    - IMO a lot more mileage out of each rune
    - more flavor potential

    Negative -
    - each rune needs to be designed twice.
    - art would largely be reused but something would need to identify to the user quickly which is being used.

    so in short longer dev times, slightly more art investment, for more useability and fluff.

    All said hind sight 20/20 I probably would of faught this option in the past maybe I actually did I don't know, I really loved the first version of the game with it's indepth upgrade options that admittedly had much of the same issues as the one we have today.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    aseryen likes this.
  2. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    I just want to know what game your playing that uses this system? Sounds good! :D
  3. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    board games, primarily.

    "Roll Player" uses it for their classes, races, and such to give choice to the random results and allow the player to shape their strategy in the early phase that best fit how they wanted to play that game.

    Another system which is used in gloomhaven for attack cards could work in a pox scenario, which is where you use 2 cards combined to get the resulting action.

    so imagine taking 2 runes, 1 being the base card, and the second being the modifier card and getting a resulting champ.

    for example

    Juya - white eyes - 60 nora

    stats X,Y,Z

    race : jakei, beast
    class: ranger

    abilities :
    arctiv flight

    Augment Card :
    cost: + 20nora
    requirement - race: beast
    Name : Arctic Born

    stats -
    def + 3
    hp +10

    tough 3
    if the unit has arctic/arctic-flight the unit gains domain - arctic otherwise add arctic


    Border Master
    cost: nora +25
    requirement: race: jakei and Ability: arctic flight
    stats : speed +1, max range + 1


    balancing would be tough for sure especially as the game got larger, but that's why you should really have a cycle based rank play system.

    mostly thinking about ideas that could possibly improve on the pox formula, as the strengths of the game are in my head a bit the last few days.

    all in all I prefer the option mentioned in the OP, makes for an easier meta to be familiar with, the augement option would result in a very steep learning curve.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  4. lucasservat

    lucasservat The King of Potatoes

    i think that as you just letted glimpse in your post, it is a insane amount of work, and this game ATM doesnt even have enough work force to fix bugs and sh*t
  5. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    The improvement cards are basically spells and equips in Pox, so I think a version of that is there already. As far as the double rune idea, that could be a neat feature in Pox 2. This version I think it would be overkill with the sheer number of runes already in the game.
  6. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    I'm glad somebody actually trying to think of ways to improve the game.
    Kinda of like that but how will the upgrade cards be like buyable with coins?
  7. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    For the most part Im getting the sense that Pox hit a good niche with digital tabletop and now other tabletop mechanics are being digitized.

    I’m in favor of a standardized CP system.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  8. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    so typical modal nowadays would be a living card game modal.

    so for me anyway I would aim to get 1 purchaseable pack every month, each pack would have 8 base cards and 8 upgrade cards to match the base card as sort of the "core version" of the card.

    you buy the pack you get all 8 cards, after a month the base cards and upgrade cards would be released into the freebie pool.

    the general idea though is you could use any upgrade card with any base card during the deck building phase and would be required to pick one for the card to be considered playable.

    so to compare it to equipments is not quite right since you apply equipment during play time, this is done during the deck building phase, and the end result is what we would currently consider a champion.
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  9. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    That's cool but why would you even have base card it not worth going for lower cost if you can go for higher one with more op stats and abilities
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Well the base card is core of the champ. It has a bade cost and stats and abilities, the upgrade would modify and give the resulting champ.

    For example.


    Race: beast
    Cost 60
    Dmg 10
    Def 1
    Spd: 6
    Range 1
    Hp 40

    Attack physical
    Hidden sand

    Augment card
    Requirement: beast
    +20 nora

    Trail: sand


    Cost 80 nora
    Dmg 16
    Rng 1
    Def 1
    Speed 6
    Hp 50

    Attack physical
    Hidden sand
    Trail sand

    The concept would be you are required to pick a single augment for every rune, during bg creation.

    If you had a large collection you may have dozens of viable augments you could use on any given champ base
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  11. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Wait so you can use on any champ so that specific one for dunewalker can be used for like draskar sandstalker?
  12. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Thats the idea yes, but the base champ needs to meet the requirements and the augments aren't faction specific but would be flavored for the champ they are released with.

    So you could take the arctic themed augment i listed above that would release with an st champ and stick it on an sp beast unit and give it arctic and some really good durability and more or less flavour it as an sp champ born in the actic.

    I've been using beast as the requirement for everything cause i'm lasy but the real things would likely have some thought to them.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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  13. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    I’ve been working on a system like this for a while and at the very least it puts the basic set of variables and all possibilities into the hundreds of millions.

    Race/Class/Faction abilities is a good way to bound these possibilities but at the same time without a heavy handed sacrifice/burn system in place the spread gets to be what you’re designing for which makes the whole model a fractal as you hone in on any one set of variables.

    This ultimately comes down to the model/visuals as we can see from Path of Exile having a basic implementation with their jewel socketing system. I’m not sure of a better comparison.

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