Yeah, I'm coming round to that point of view. I do feel like Ferren should have something to promote them as a deck type though.
Why is the cooldown and ap cost so high? You completely lose control of a champion. I think it should be like sermon; the champion will deactivate the effect upon movement.
The idea behind the high cooldown is that you have it on several champs and rotate who is using it, I think there should be a meaningful decision made in using an ability like this, though it could go down to 5.
I think the idea behind it is nice, with a few tweaks we can come up with an even better one. Also, behold my new sig and despair. Specially you, @Sokolov muahauhauabhahah
I'm not a fan of making Ferren Focus feel like a defensive ability when Ferren have a distinctly aggressive flavor. Kas (now known simply as NKD beatsticks) were the defensive monks while Ferren were the offensive monks. Before I get ahead of myself (I have a very specific set of changes in mind for NKD, Kas and Ferren), how seriously are we looking at Ferren atm?
Very seriously. I think it may be one of the best themes inside ST post revamp, with their small nora costs and whatnot. I like where you are going with this Offensive/Defensive monks thinking, please expand on it.
In the short term, we are probably going to tweak a few Ferren away from NKD and back to the mobility style they used to have - which I think was fairly unique and a lot of ST players enjoyed. Longer term I definitely want to get them a proper racial back - whether that is tied into monks or away from them, I haven't decided. It could be, as @Entrepidus suggests, an offensive/defensive distinction, perhaps with the two racials working together somehow (such as counting the number of Monks), but the Kas having a defensively oriented variant, while the Ferren have the offensively oriented one. This way, you can play both in the same deck, and both their racials key off each other, or you can just play one, and the racial still works just fine.
Yeah Sokobro, you are the best when it comes to these little synergies and whatnot, I have faith on this. What are your thoughts on reverting NKD to its original form, though? Are you against it?
@Pedeguerra, @Sokolov I've gone through multiple iterations, but here is a snippet of just the abilities I had in mind from a much lengthier post of individual champion adjustments for Ferren/Kas. Separate Monks, Ferren and Kas into separate entities: Nohkan Do = requires the Monk class Ferren Focus = given to all Ferren Kas Disciple = given to specific ST Monks (start with previous Kas group) Abilities Nohkan Do - (2 ranks) Activated (CD 2/1, 0 AP): For 2 turns, attacks against this unit automatically miss and this unit loses 2 AP. Does not trigger if this unit is Paralyzed, Stunned or has less than 2 AP. (Works while Distracted if activated before Distracted was applied) (See NKD discussion) Ferren Focus (offensive) - "Muay Thai" Passive: successful basic attacks apply Frozen 1 (Slow 1) > Frozen 2 (Slow 2) > Distracted 2 > Sundered 2 Awestruck/Frozen/Stun were problematic in the same debuff chain. This order of debuffs gates them in such a way as to be appropriate in both 1v1 and group engagements with Sunder providing the extra DMG required for particularly sturdy champs. Putting the duration of Sundered at 2 turns prevents the damage bonus from carrying across turns. Kas Disciple (defensive) - "Wing Chun" Passive: Whenever this champion is targeted by a basic attack, the attacker becomes Frozen 2. If the attacker is already Frozen, it gets -1 DEF for 2 turns. (See Vulnerable) The goal is to provide a strong incentive to retaliate after being attacked. As with Ferren Focus, Frozen 2 prevents the SPD debuff from carrying across turns. It will provide -1 ATK/DEF before the stacking -1 DEF, though. (Note: a range cap for triggering the debuffs might be necessary) Together, these would replace the Discipline set of abilities and help prop up older abilities like Savage Exploit. Sprinkle it here and there for synergy without forcing Monk exclusivity. That said, Crippling Discipline (Kas/defensive) and Sundering Discipline (Ferren/offensive) could be preserved as options for a handful Ferren and Kas champs. Distracted (from Crippling) helps Kas champions prevent non-basic attacks from going around Kas Disciple's triggers and Sunder (from Sundering) provides periodic Sunder in solo environments when Ferren Focus lacks numbers to make it all the way to the end of the chain.
I mean, it seems more appropriate to just give monks Block/Dodge/Scrapper/Evasive/Reflexes. We have tons of these kinds of things already. And having NKD (current version) on a few units here and there doesn't seem like a big deal and is an interesting mechanic. That's my current thinking anyway.
Entrepidus : I like it initially, would need to give it more thought but is definitely interesting and has a lot of potential. Sokobro: yeah, I like this approach as well too, I don't think all of them need NKD, but they could use the abilities you mentioned. I also think the cap on NKD misses is really bad and should be reverted (just thought Id share since I dont feel its changing).
I thought the bigger issue was the 25% (same with Dragon Skull)? So either increase to 30% or drop to 20% and lower cost to 25/30N.
No the issue was always the cost for the amp. Dragon skull gives two amps for 5 more nora which is why its been compared to it constantly. If dragon skull was to be used as a baseline the ice shard should actually be around 25 nora for 25% amp; but that'd be too low for a relic that provides a large global amp.
I'm aware of the discrepancy; I'm talking about how they don't follow the 10% pattern that other Amp sources do.
yes but that puts it no where on par with dragon skull because relics are either don't have a really large impact on the game or aren't easily available to damage(UT). I wouldn't see that as a big issue in the grand scheme of things but consistency is indeed important.
Thank you Soko. I hope you got time for doing this while looking at Strigs / Flying units. That would be WONDERFUL.
Well since we are talking about ferren can we do something about the legends and exo's they are all overly priced with very low hp. I don't mind ferren having low hp. They have always been mobile and squishy with good racial ( but cheap). 81 Nora for dancer it has 38 hp who would deploy that thing.
