@Makorov PM him. This thread means a lot for ST players and we don't like it filled with personal conversations.
does anyone understand a joke @calisk @Pedeguerra I doubt sok was serious when suggesting all ap loss on entry.
Hehe, not at all. I still think cheap champ spam is terrible for the game and will continue to push to changes toward that. While that doesn't happen, though, I will push for whatever takes ST out of the hole it's in atm. On the Crystals, give Immortality back on Endless Devotion. Then go from there.
There was a change proposed to glaive that gives him a few builds below 80 nora do you not like those?
If you are referring to this suggestion, I like it, except that I'd go with Evasive 3 and Declare: Hunted being on base.
SO 78 nora RNG to 1-3 (1-4 would add 7 nora) CA: Ranged removed from base Declare Hunted added to base U1: Aerial Supremacy, Evasive 2 (Default), Evasive 3 U2: Bravery (Default),Commander: Ranger, Surge: Ranger No change to Glaive Bounce (other than some cost reduction) I think that's a pretty good looking rune
Nice suggestion. Taint 30N Regeneration 3 (7N) Draconic Force (8N) Race + Draksar Imbue Lumiescence 20N Nora Gem (2N) Race + Elemental Looks fair since Nora Gem can produce exponential effects on a Crystal BG.
Can you explain how adding an 8 nora ability to base for a 75 nora unit only increases the cost by 3 nora? (Maybe I missed something.) Now, if we did as @Pedeguerra suggested by adding both Declare Hunted AND Evasive 3 to base, it'd be 89 nora before we even talked about what replaces Evasive as the default upgrade. So assuming we replace it with a 5ish nora ability and then gave a larger modifier for free for "bloat" it'd still be pushing 90 nora. I assume we don't want a 90ish nora Glaive. Now, if it isn't a 90 nora Glaive that we want, can we please make sure that the suggestions are actually in-line with costs? I mean, it's not as tho this isn't easily calculated in this case, since ability costs are public information. I am not trying to be snarky, but it'd save time and mental energy on everyone's parts. (This sort of thing is also why making stats and/or abilities cost more in general would generally make runes unplayable without removing all but upgrade abilities.)
So I did post it semi-jokingly, but I wanted discussions on the amount and the way it works. Currently, the idea is simply -1/-2 on entry. In most cases, -2 is not really any different than all AP as people aren't typically rushing someone's font with large amounts of AP remaining. In cases where this does happen, it's typically an uncontested font somewhere and the lost AP is not as crucial due to lack of immediate engagement. Lastly, in most cases where it would take more than 4 AP, you'd have lost some of that due to AP cap anyway. The most important aspect of "all AP" is preventing people from moving thru your font multiple spaces or contesting and engaging an enemy inside or on the other side of the font (which any amount of AP removal does, of course). Note that in either the -1/-2 AP causes, it doesn't prevent contesting, only removal of AP post contesting. However, combining with Annex (ability or banner) would prevent contesting without more AP expended. In the case of Annex + ALL AP is where it becomes crazy (and for that reason I am not serious about the suggestion). I am not fond of one-off clauses that is super unclear/weird. This would be a case where it only costs 1 AP to enter a space, but I am not allowed to enter it unless I have 2 AP, and then it uses just 1 AP, and then removes another after. It's just awkward and weird. I would also argue it's potentially stronger than removes all AP in many instances. Now, if we made the terrain Impeding (which is a reasonable alternative implementation of the idea being discussed), that'd accomplish a similar effect and take more AP to move into the font. It'd also have the bonus of affecting movement THRU the font. Of course, it wouldn't affect Flying, Relocation, etc.
Sorry for the confusion there was an error on my end. I thought Declare hunted was the default upgrade. So with it moving to base and bravery becoming the default it would be 78. But yea you're right.
I think we could still be 78-80 range if we shaved some stats and used a bit of a modifier (it already has a small one with the 75 nora build, to be honest). Note that the U2: Being Surge/Commander and Bravery basically means there's no upgrade choice there that isn't a theme thing and all of them are similar in terms of effect/theme tie-in, and I try to avoid that sort of thing in general. Thus, it might be better to go with Evasive on base instead, and with Surge, Declare and Bravey it means that they are all offensive choices depending on what you build towards.
damage to 9 and hp to 40 is probably the best we could do with stats because even with the ST bonus it's still a relatively weak (in terms of base stats) melee champion that's costing 78-80 nora.
Well then, I have no idea what to do with this fella. All I know is: he needs to be ranged in order to make good use of Glaive Bounce; he must have strong offensive potential in order for his signature ability to be maximized. Whatever else is done I really dont mind.
hmmmm...... I'd push him in the glass cannon route, he always was before. I forget was the double bounce changed? i.e if you have two champs the first champ targeted gets hit twice? anyway as such I'd remove his defensive options entirely for offensive ones. probably something like the evasive upgrade path being changed to hunter:meek, declare:hunted, wind striker, and counter attack ranged being swapped with channel:damage. declare hunted on upgrade 2 would be swapped with reinforcement:2
I like the glass cannon route as well, but I dont like any of the above suggested ideas, except for declare: hunted, which should be base btw. Edit: and yes Cal, if there are 2 units out, the first receives 100% dmg, then the second 75%, then the first gets hit again for 25% damage.
well I can try to come up with another soloution but most if not all will result in a much higher cost then is playable as your suggestion proved. the above method allows you to focus down on what ever is your hunted target be it by meek, windstriker or declare. declare hunted is not required on base and we have a lot of hunted abilities now that weren't avilable when this unit was created. channel damage makes him a major threat with bounce and was on his original design way back when, was part of why he was such a threat since you could customize his bounce damage to match what was required to get a kill. as for reinforcements I just thought it might make the jakei decks happy in the end nothing is really going to get taken over strike, though the potential for fast reinforcements is close imo.
