Review of the Changes to Poxnora's Themes Since Ronin

The boost changes and recostings ruined many of the bgs that were just recently made viable with the ronin and coalitions expansions.

I am not saying the changes were bad but I am saying that many of them were not implemented well and little attention was payed to many of the bgs they impacted which were many. I will list some of the many themes that were recently destroyed by nerfs, the boost changes, or the recostings. 1 major mistake the devs are making is that they continue to make sweeping changes like these, major nerfs, or release broken champions without paying any attention to how they would change the bgs they are affecting. I have watched many of my bgs constantly be nerfed into the ground recently and going from too strong to complete trash instead of becoming balanced like they should have been if handled properly. I have also watched other bgs obtain or be allowed to keep ridiculously overpowered rune/rune combinations that shouldn't even exist or be allowed in ranked. Here is the list of themes that have been impacted recently. Many of the themes could easily be fixed, some were already fixed and then ruined again.@Sokolov


Description of the changes made.

The Bad

Demons
( nerf to relocation, bloodbow, nefari guardian/maxxarek, shockbow too weak, split personality nerf, lack of cleanse/spell blocker/anti cc. backlash affecting sacrifice also makes no sense and can kill shrines)
Cyclops
(2x2 makes them weak to aoe, turtling, certain maps. way too many 5 speeds/vitalize not enough range. ranged units too weak, sibling overnerfed.)
Constructs
(boost change greatly reduced their damage output of an already mediocre theme. ranged units very expensive and lacking. mechanical band overnerfed.)
All Beast Except St
(boost change reduced all boost 3 beast themes damage output greatly. UD beast are not even close to being a complete theme. SL beast lost blitz, the 15% refund, as well as boost while getting almost nothing in return. FS Beast are so bad I am not sure that is even a theme. FW Beast seems like it could be split with something but not a theme itself atm and very weak. IS beast is much weaker after the boost change but still much better than the rest minus st. KF beast also seems much weaker. SP beast were terrible even with boost 3 and have alot of holes in the bg, the boost change made them even worse obviously.)
Elves
(recostings hit low hp and 0 def units too hard and their synergy was overnerfed.)
Spirits
(incorpeal, unholy tomb, and haunting spirit change nerfed this theme hard and they got very little in return.)
Undead
(dark familiar, death guard, and polluted martyr were overnerfed. unholy tomb nora gen no longer makes up for one of the weaker faction bonus in the game and most nora gen factions now produce 2 or 3 times+ the amount of nora with a faction bonus.)
Firk
(recostings hit them hard, backlash affecting marsh song and noraweave also hit them hard. I think soultap/backlash combo was also unnecessarily removed as well, need confirmation on that.
Lonx
(camaraderie should not have been nerfed, recostings hit some champs hard, mediocre ranged units and ranged unit sunder nerf hurt them alot)
Yeti
(keeper of memories over nerfed, not enough done to make the theme complete/viable)
Deep Elf
(split personality nerf, heretic overlord lost relocation, priestess relocation nerf, bloodbow overnerfed, shockbow too weak, guardian/maxxarek nerf. backlash on sacrifice can easily kill shrines.)
Skeleton
(boost changed took away a ton of damage from this theme. unholy tomb nerf also hurt alot.)
Zombie
(unholy tomb nerf hurt alot, plague zombies not being spawned also makes them alot weaker.)
Lich
(illusions no longer count towards surge for some reason and this pretty much ended the theme because of the lack of damage on shadestriker even though it was already bad.( too many poorly put together lich with bad stats, sandbags, and or bad ranges. unholy tomb nerf hurt this theme alot like pretty much every other fw theme.)
Tortun
(pillage and transporter nerf made them even weaker than they already were. Not nearly enough done to make them a viable theme. Too slow, ponderous just makes this problem even worse, and they have very poor ranges. Tortuns trade is also very time consuming to use with limited time on turns, it is also pretty weak and should be changed.)
Kanen
( The loss of soul collection hurt this theme alot. I think this change was made to weaken meta sp but ended up affecting kanen much more heavily. The boost change hurt this theme a bit but I think commander makes makes up for it a little bit although requires another champ and a melee)
Treefolk
( the defender change was good but this theme lost a ton of damage from the boost change like skeleton, constructs, and beasts. Trees also have many champs with speeds too low, lumbering, and poor changes.)
Mirefolk
( this theme was overnerfed and hydraxor instead of being balanced was sent back to the shoebox. I would need to spend more time looking at this themes changes to discuss it further.
Worms
(necrosis was nerfed heavily with almost nothing given in return and sent a borderline bg to the shoebox. Polluted martyr also lost race worm for some reason which doesn't make much sense to me. The unholy tomb nerf also hit this theme hard.)
Archer
(recostings hit this theme really hard like many other kf themes. also runes players used in archer bg like experimental warspirit were overnerfed)
Ferren/Nohkando
(many ferrens losing nohkando and getting very little in return was a very bad change. This theme is far from complete and its recent changes only seemed to have made it worse.)
Psychic/Psychic Amp
(the recostings hit the majority of psychic champs very hard, backlash working on spells against marsh song, noraweave, and sacrifice also weakens this theme alot.
*Myx (haven't tested yet but may belong to this list)
(Myx drones were nerfed hard and myx didn't recieve much compensation if any in other areas to make up for this.)

@Sokolov as you can see this is a pretty extensive list and contain many of the themes that you had previously done great work on. This is not good to say the least... This is especially depressing because I warned that many of these changes would have this affect if not done properly by making positive changes to the themes to balance them out as other changes were made that negatively impacted them. The majority of these themes just received negative changes recently and little to no compensation to keep them from falling apart.

The Good

Vashal

Moga
( they seem to be in a decent spot but have some game mechanics that are problematic. Double deploying on the first turn with moga can be opressive and sapper+juggler combination is currently insane; especially in a moga bg built for it with access to moga recruiter hym, ghern thrower, vicious harpoon pull and drive, and firebomber/moga chef aoe. ghern general flag bearer ability is also glitching and at times not showing who has the flag. The flag bearer ability in general may be too strong and may need to be looked at. the moga trapper change was great, trap stacking with harpoon was nuts but is still possible on other runes with multiple traps. After 1 or more of these changes are made moga may need buffs in other areas to keep them competitive. Juggler+sapper stacking death nova/fire volatile is a serious problem though. This should have been hotfixed the day after the coalitions patch.
Skeezick
(the devs have done a great job on skeezick making many of their champs such as blackguard, general, totem of the fallen, and skeezick warmage much more viable and even great units. The only problem atm though is that they are a little too strong. Their extremely high damage on their ranged units combined with their synergy and global powerturn spells is too much. Skeezick revolt is also way too strong and needs to be changed asap. Many of the skeezick in this spell were buffed drastically while draksar hunter no longer has his hunter ability and is possibly the weakest unit of the 4 summoned.)
Dwarves
(a ton of great changes have been made to dwarves and I am really glad how they turned out but keg toss is a little too much. The main problem with it is the amount of debuffs it gives and the duration. If it is going to last 6 turns then some of the debuffs need to be removed. An alternative fix would just be reducing the duration of the debuff to 4 or 2 turns. Also saint semmir brew seems to be too strong on ranged units or units with aoe. IS nora gen is also too strong atm and generates the most by far of any faction.)
Poison
(Poison is starting to come together as a theme but some of its champs still need changes to be made more viable. 1 thing that needs to be fixed with poison though is the aoe vulnerable given by choking aura. 40% vulnerability for such a low cost in a majority poison bg is way too powerful. Also dot 5 seems to be a little too strong on ranged units.)
St Frost Amp
(alot of good changes have been made recently to this theme and the related jakei theme. This theme currently has alot of different build paths and options for champion includes and even non champion runes. A couple problems I have with this theme though is the ability to easily wipe boards with howling wind 40% vulnerability and summon ant swarm being too powerful in spell form. The new frost legend is really great though, its range isn't good but it makes up for it with its amazing stats and abilities at such a low cost.)
St Elemental
( this theme is improving alot as many of its champions are becoming more viable, such as crystal howler, crystal yeti, jakei shaman, crystal wolverine,jakei in general, and others. I would like to see this theme continue to improve and become more complete.)
St Beast
( This may be one of the few themes that lost boost that actually benefited from the boost changes. Because of only having access to boost 1 previously losing the 1 damage and gaining 5 hp globally is a pretty fair trade. baby furbull is way undercosted and can be used to boost the bg. The crystal howler, arctic turtle, and frostfall hydra ability changes also benefited this theme greatly.
Jakei
(this is one of the most improved themes all. Just a short while ago this theme had almost no synergy and was barely playable, now it is actually pretty good and very fun to play. Gaining boost through nohkando guide was a great idea and great change, defender from jakei maiden or elite borderguard also makes this theme much more powerful. Regal presence isn't as good on a unit with 6-8 range as it is on a melee but it does help and the new elemental core helps alot as well, as well as the new pilgrimage spell font bonus helping most st bgs.)
Fairy
( I have noticed many fiaries have lost sandbag abilities and have been made much more efficient and powerful recently. The theme seems really great although I would like to see some of the power of amerath's lexicon removed and redistributed to other areas in the bg. Often times equiping lexicon against an equipped champ allows you to instantly remove it from the board because of surge, kf's range, and speed. The boost change also seems to have benefited this theme but I think he recostings may have hurt it a bit. At first I wasn't excited about the new corgi champs but now that I have seen them in game and their stats and abilities I am very satisfied with how they turned out. They are some of the best additions to the game recently from a gameplay standpoint. Really happy with the direction fairies are going.)
Dragon
(dragons seem to be in a pretty good spot. The recostings seem to have benefitted some of their champs and champs like skywing eminent, prismatic skywing, valdac, draksar morph, draksar consulate, skywing imperator, and destroyer have been improved a great deal. Some of the best changes to runes have happened in this theme. Other champs in the theme haven't faired so well though. Vindrax cost too much nora, vex was overnerfed and shoeboxed with the wellspring change, skywing acidcraw was overnerfed and shoeboxed, sibling was nerfed too hard and shoeboxed mauler, sunder hellion territorial needs to be nerfed and its nora cost reduced and its 2nd ability lines are poor. dreadnought is still way overcosted and way too easy to kill for such an expensive unit, it also has draksar ability base that don't help it in dragons. Skywing rumbler is also way too strong. I would possibly remove shortlived from it and give it surge 1 instead of 2, other changes would probably have to be made to it as well to get it costed probably and make sure it still has a strong impact.)
Voil
(Alot of the voil changes have been really good. The theme is starting to really come together but has a few holes. The new voil is great but would have been much better if it had been giving alt damage, something voils severely lack on their viable units. the summoned bat buff is awesome and helps the theme alot. The boost changed benefited this theme because of previously only having access to boost 1 and because of the amount of low hp summons utilized by this theme. I am not sure if voil guard was changed recently but vigilence combined with the improved and more numerous summon of voils has made him alot more powerful as well as increased the power of voil surge and bulwark in general. My only issue with this theme atm is the cost of sonic flight, lacking alternative damage on their best units, having no real counter to swarm with low hp summons, and the lack of good ranged options outside of sorcerer. Other than that the theme is coming together nicely and is better than I had thought previously although not nearly as strong as many claim)
Witch
( this theme has recently been improved alot but at the same time the recosting hit them really hard and even though they no longer take 1 global damage from tomb, their nora gen was reduced greatly which still hurts them. The festering wound change has great synergy with tomb, tome, and pain curse but not having much access to defile hurts them a ton against bg with access to cleanse. Undead crone is also way too weak of a unit and needs to buffed buffed or reworked to be viable. The 3 best changes made recently have been to mysian lamia, inkblight witch, and wretched witch. These runes are all pretty good now, especially lamia and inkblight. It is really amazing how they turned out but they still don't make up for the lack of hp, def, and tanks in witch bg. The experimental warspirit nerf shoeboxed the rune and made it especially weak in UD. His desecration aoe even hurts witches and I have no idea why they gave him that ability or half his new ability set. I would really like to see sarinda improved and lose death touch. I really dislike such a high cost ability like death touch being on a squishy ranged unit that isn't going to have much of an opportunity to use it safely or deal damage after using this ability.)
Goblins
(I don't have much experience with goblins because they are not a completed theme but I have seen alot of posistive changes made to them with goblin spellkaiser and goblin brute for example. I think if this were to continue and more were released this would be a very popular and well received theme. Goblin thievery may need to be looked at though and mercenary needs to be reworked or only last temporarily, perhaps 5 turns.)

The Meh

Hyaenid
(not enough done to make individual hyaenid stronger, even though flamefist was extremely broken and dreamcrusher may have been too strong, hyaenid were crutching on these runes to be successful. Hyaenid dreamcrusher's damage was overnerfed imo.
Draksar
( defender's buff was great for draksar but temple guard is still a 5 speed unit and not especially tanky. Draksar still severely lack viable ranged options and the only ranged damage dealer they have that isn't terrible is draksar psion. After the recostings draksars ranged options became even worse and for some reason disicple of the scale was added to edraksar high priest base. This change makes absolutely no sense and neither vindrax or valdac have synergy with draksar. From a lore stand point it also makes no sense that champions like consulate and dreadnought are both draksar and dragon but the leader of the draksar akakios is only dragon. wtf is this?!? Draksars synergy is also pretty mediocre, especially compared to skeezick but I would like to see where they were at balancewise after their ranged units were buffed first. Ammunition needs to be removed from rocketeer...)
Barbarian
( fury of storm was broken on release because of his lightning field dealing 4x damage to 2x2 units and it expanding and being up nearly all game over a wide area. Now that lightning field is balanced fury of the storm is a pretty mediocre unit and could use some help. I need to spend some more time with barbarians to really figure out what they are lacking atm but they seem to be just a notch below the the strong bgs currently. Bastion the avenger needs to be reworked or altered somehow though. Combo attack devastate is way too strong on him, when using him you either lose from your opponent finding a way to kill him because of his cost which isn't easy, or you win from killing your opponents champ instantly often times with might of ironfist allowing you to delete a champ for only 4 ap. I killed a glacial titan with this from full hp the other day.)
Boghopper
(boghoppers are improving but still lack alot and need some changes to become a good bg in ranked. The defender buff helps them alot like nearly every other theme with defender but boghoppers have far too many champs with extremely low damage. Boghopper shaman 7 damage, boghopper paladin 8 dmg, darkmarsh fury 9 dmg, darkmarsh enforcer 7 dmg, darkmarsh instigator 8 dmg, tidemaster 9 dmg, darkmarsh witch 9 dmg, swampguard crusher 8 dmg, finlord's neophyte 9 dmg. The average damage of boghopper is way too low and many of their champs can barely get passed tanks defense. 1 problem with FS in general is almost no way to bypass high def champs besides drown or infuse which is a mediocre spell. Leap 3 is overcosted as well and is a problem on any champ that has it on its base such as boghopper shaman, marsh warden, and augur of the deep. Lastly many boghoppers have unnecasary sandbags that just add to their cost without providing much benefit and makes them and the rune much weaker than it would be otherwise. The main things boghopper need is many of these near worthless sandbags removed and and increase of damage to many of their champs, especially the ones with less than 9... Strike and or sunder would also be great in boghoppers and fs.)
Rock Defiance
(The main problem with this bg is poor ranges and lack of efficiency and damage on many champs. Grintmaw bouncer and rock forger are extremely strong but most of the other champs in these theme are mediocre and lacking. The defender buff was a great gain for this theme but it still needs alot of work. If it is going to have limited range it needs other feautures to make up for such a huge disadvantage and sandbags need to be removed.)
Garu
( Garu have improved a little bit but many garu still have a ton of sandbags and the bg doesn't have enough to make up for its lack of range options for it to be viable competitively. Garu either need more synergy and features to make up for the lack of range or need their ranged units improved so that this bg can compete. Currently the only good ranged unit garu have is garu whisperer, his cost is too high but he is pretty good. Garu hurler may have preperation but he is one of the weaker champs in the game with this ability and isn't that effective as a ranged unit. Garu shaman's 2-4 range and low damage really hurts garu alot. I am not sure what exactly garu need to become competitive, my guess would be more synergy similarly to what lonx have and possibly more survivability if they are going to be melee focused and sandbag reductions.)
Salaman
(This theme has made almost no progress since the revamp and is one of the worst in the game, possibly even worse than old firks. The theme literally has 0 synergy and has a 10 nora fire immunity sandbag minimum on nearly every champ. Most of these champs are put together poorly, have terrible survivability, damage, and range. Salaman rook was also shoeboxed recently being double nerfed removing both pillage and super charge. The only good salaman currently is salaman hunter and slick and buzz the rest are a complete mess. Jyx is improved but currently cost a ton of nora, I haven't tested him myself since his changes because of soultap and bleed bgs both sucking so I am not 100% on the strength of him currently.)
Leoss
( leoss have some good champs and leos magnates new 4-5 range is great but I still think their nora cost are too high to generally be effective against many of the stronger bgs currently in use. I have seen some people play them but they generally are just abusing the overpowered combination of an aoe cone on the northern cross obelisk. Mosharn was overnerfed first by the tough nerf and then again in the hero changes and is probably shoebox now. I think if leoss got rid of some sandbags and got the cost of many of their 80+ nora champs down a bit then they would be really good.
Djinn
( don't have much experience playing or playing against this bg but from what I do know aboute it, it is not complete and needs alot of work to be viable. Peaks marid was nerfed for no reason and given 2-4 range from 3-5 which makes no sense, this change pretty much destroyed the rune. Peaks ifrit losing fire immunity was a good change since it was mostly a sandbag but I wish their djin ability was an upgrade option and not base. peak dao's deflect is an overcosted ability, it makes no sense that block is on unit with reflexes, and Peak dao's 7 damage is pathetic and needs to be changed asap... Peaks dew seems decent but tidal wave and dive abilities are just pointless sandbags and 4-6 range is very expensive.
Slag/Jellybrium/Strigs
(I have never even bothered trying slags, jellybrium, or strigs because they have been so bad for so long with almost nothing changed)
Centaur
( similarly to goblins more champions need to be released for this theme to be completed. Unlike goblins though I have seen far less progress made with this and and making its champs more competitive. I think this would also be a very popular and well liked theme if it were to be completed and easily has the potential to be great. Currently most centaur are mediocre because of their set of abilities or overly sandbagged with abilities that aren't very helpful. They seem to generally have pretty good stats though.
Stitched
( The recostings hit them pretty hard but because of how reconstruct works they are still way too efficient on larger maps that allow them to setup. Reconstruct needs to be changed and nerfed somehow. After it is nerfed they may need buffs in other areas to make up for this loss. I think adding to the cooldown of reconstruct, limiting the amount of reconstructed units you can have on the board, limiting the amount of units you can reconstruct per turn, or limiting the amount of times unit can be reconstructed or that a unit can reconstruct are all good options to fix this issue. The tomb change actually hurt stitched more than it helped them because of reconstruct and because of stitched first and tyrant healing. The nora gen lost hurts more than the hp gained by the change.)
Vampyre
( the main problem with vampyre is their lack of viable range units, sandbags, and life siphon being an overcosted ability that exist on many of their units.)
Blood
(blood bg also lacks range, anti range, spell blocker, anti cc, cleanse, and has alot of champs with unnecessary sandbags increasing their cost for little to no gain. This bg seems to have been progressing a bit with the addition of jyx, bloodgoyle, etc, but it still needs more work before it is complete.)
Paladin
( they relied heavily on angel of protection and angel of mercy. The game is better with nerfed angels but I feel that many of the angels changes could have been handled better and they could have stayed effective units without being broken. Most angels are just super expensive now and not really worth running. When the angels were nerfed paladin lost its best range options and now are now forced to run more non paladin champions in the bg. Alot of good changes have been made though like the northern cross priestess changes, the norther cross cardinal change, and the crusader change. If it weren't for the broken IS nora gen and terraformer I think this bg would be lacking atm.)
Wings
(I don't have much information on this theme currently. I assume the loss of boost 3 hurt it alot but it does have access to commander through paladin commander. It also has access to very good ranged units but I am unsure of how powerful it is currently or how well its synergy works together. It is probably around the same strength as barbarian or paladin currently. Alot of good changes have been made to this theme but with the loss of boost 3 it probably needs more buffs)
Magic Amp(need more information on this)
( bliss was buffed nicely but is currently way too strong, garu whisperer was a nice addition as well. I have mixed feelings on elven mage, I do not like that he lost loyalty but I do like the cost reduction he got, I would like them to give him loyalty back though.)
De'lim
(this bg needs more champs and the de'lim champs need to be worked on. They don't have very good ability sets or stats and some have sandbags they don't need. trees also have alot of issues that need to be worked on. This bg could be really fun and strong but it still needs work.)
Lightning
( I have almost no experience with this theme but I am happy with the new cyclonic fesh and I am happy with some of the new runes they have released for it. It needs alot more work though to be completed and become a viable theme for competitive. Probably needs new champs and champs like barbarian bolt with sandbags like immunity lightning need to be altered.)
Sand
This theme still needs alot of work, the new sand champ is awesome though. Imperator joining the sand theme is also great and it seems to be moving in the right direction even if its far from being a strong and reliable competitive bg.)
fire eater( the split personality and magma bunny nerf hurt alot. I am not particarly good at this theme though and I would like to know what dzso thinks about it currently. I think the theme could use some more anti range because of its limited range or relocation, I would also like the new fire legend to have his cost reduced. hunter meek is overcosted and too powerful against what it hunts. impeding lava on maps should also be addressed at some point, it provides way too much of an advantage to this bg. I won a game recently with this bg because I had free healing from the lava on the map. Similar to cliff diving lava on maps provides way too much of a benefit for bgs that can take advantage of these terrain such as knockback, possess, flying, and fire eater runes.)
Fire Amp
(fire immunity needs to be reduced in this game to help this bg out. This bg also needs something to make up for its lack of range, relocation, and anti range. backlash is currently way too strong against sacrifice and this hurts all UD bgs, split personality nerf hurts too.)
Bok(is this a theme?)
(needs much more synergy, work on the ability sets/stats of many bok, and more ways to combat range)
Spiders
(needs protection against swarm and aoe. Sever summons should also be nerfed so that it does not instantly delete summons in aoe. It should only delete 1 at a time with a cd or reduce their hp by a set amount like a stronger version of shattered dreams. Spiders also need more protection against range or something to make up for their lack of range besides the tools they already have which isn't enough. The devs might want to consider removing surge 2 as well, I am not sure how I feel about this but surge 2 can get ridiculous at times especially in bgs like spiders even if spiders aren't very strong atm. Of course they would need to buff spiders in other areas before enacting such a change unlike what they have done with other themes
-___- unfortunately lol.
Acid/Fire Amp
(This SL bg could be pretty cool, either both fire acid amp or one or the other. I think this theme needs more to be completed though, I don't have much experience with it but I assume it is lacking in many areas and needs more before it is decently strong and versatile enough for competitive.)

 

You are confusing "certain things are stupid" with "lots of themes are bad". Let's see what we currently have:

- stupid WotM and SplitPers — which win more games than all other 2k+ runes in the game combined, and enforce a single playstyle of cheap efficient stuff + stat buffs
- stupidly undercosted champs/abilities because calculator tries to cost them in vacuum — murkfrenzy, skeez, everything with regal presence and low base stats, etc — that enforces same playstyle even more
- stupid maps in rotation, with more than half of them being two-font, and remaining — still singlefront ones — already third (!) factor, benefitial for a single playstyle

- stupid abilities design like keg toss/menaces/new surges/sapping armor/etc
- stupid champ design like bastion
- stupid IS and ST font bonuses

And basically everything that is not on the list, seems UP now.

Certain ex-boost-dependant themes need some finetuning — boost should be on few key champs, and regular champs should get more defender/commander upgrade options.

Next we have some dumbed-down themes — stitched/barbs/foul rite/etc — which were turned from cool variable themes into stupid one/few-trick ponies.

And the only theme which really needs redesign — zombies. They are completely pointless with summoned corpses — a single ant can do as much as a whole theme with wasted upgrades, and there are nothing special for those summons unlike skellies or spirits.

 

lol at calling lonx bad. im playing them at the moment. still OP

 

The categories describe the nature of the recent changes made to the themes not the themes themselves. Also lonx do not compare to the stronger bgs currently in use. If you played in higher ranked games you would see that. There is a reason hardly anyone runs lonx but I know it is a routine for you to post some random disagreement with my threads.

And this is exactly why I don't go in depth with my threads, I am getting tired as heck writing all of this. I am not even going to go back and edit this after I finish this rough draft.

 

camaderie change occured when lonx were stupid OP because frankly -7 nora is just ridiculous. lonx shouldnt have the option to be 4 nora cheaper than they already are. There ranged units are not even close to mediocre and im pretty sure you haven't even tested them to figure this out because the chieftain AND marauder are both fantastic.

 

There are more good decks then high ranked players to play them. Basing your opinion of a decks viability just based on the fact that you dont see them run often is a fallacy. For a long time you would rarely see SP played. They were somewhere between first and third in faction strength but they were basic and boring and no one wanted to use them.

 

I have played lonx often, I never continue them because they aren't very strong.

 

That may be true sometimes but in this case lonx are not played because they are not a top deck. They are pretty average and not very strong imo.

@Sokolov rough draft done. Use this to make these themes amazing.

 

You can say what you want but if anyone plays against my strong bgs with lonx I will farm them.

 

i didnt say anything john mcginley said your wrong

 

A decks viability cannot be determined by its track record against a few decks, it has to be looked it over the course of many games against many different types of decks. It is difficult to make those judgements currently because we have a small playerbase and much of it is uncreative with their decks and tend to copy whatever they see succeed. What you refer to as "strong decks" are a reflection of the current meta and you are correct that they are currently very strong. But the meta is a fickle thing and tomorrow someone could discover the counter to the current "strong decks" and all those fickle players will start playing that deck. Suddenly the "strong decks" disappear because people dont stick around long enough to see if they are still viable. The decks that were held in check by the previous meta then ascend into dominance without any actual changes to their viability.

 

The problem with lonx isn't bg countering them though. The problem with lonx is that they don't have anything that makes them stand out currently. They rely completely on synergy and most of their runes aren't very strong individually. They are highly susceptible to draw wins from opponents and vulnerable on smaller maps. They also lack strong ranged damage, nora gen, and power turns.

 

Not sure what you expect Soko to do, it's not like you offered any suggestions to the themes you think are bad and this is just your opinion. Think you need to get some people to agree with you first before you expect Soko to make some changes.

 

Dreadnought shouldnt have race Dragon imo, its a Draksar themed rune and should be Draksar exclusive.

 

it's long, so it must be gud

 

Pretty sure Jakei is a race, not a theme.

 

Thats what she said...

 

It is.

 

If he makes the changes I am asking for most of these themes will more or less fixed. I am not interested in getting other people to agree with me... Sounds like a waste of time .

It is taking way too long to get these themes in a good spot. I would like this to be finished so they can focus on improving other areas of the game.