Young Turks reveal the truth about USA Police Violence and it's roots.

They can still harm and kill, and people are less careful with using them since they are supposedly harmless. Still, if they'd use those tools correctly I think it would be a gain.

 

Guns are deadly. I haven't had a chance to pull up the statistics, but a gunshot to the leg, arm, or other location is still far more likely to kill than a less than lethal alternative. In Burn's first video, the guy wasn't stopped by the first gunshot or the second. He wasn't even visibly slowed. Perhaps the first two shots missed, perhaps they were gut shots, which while deadly won't cause an immediate slow down. If a situation has reached a point where deadly force is necessary, then yes, KILL KILL KILL MURDER DESTROY BANG BANG BANG. If you don't want to kill the suspect, don't use a gun.

 

and I am saying that shooting a person in the leg, while possibly deadly, is far less lethal than shooting them in the chest or head. I don't understand what part of that I am miscommunicating to you?

you seem to imply that when a mistake is made and real guns with live ammo are pulled instead of tasers the option to try and migitate the loss of lives is closed off and should be discarded.

your perfect world where there is no human error and therefore no need to acount for it is nice, but not a reality.

... the guy being shot slumping against the wall, before stumbling down while the cops turn him into a sieve was not being visibly slowed?

technically I guess falling down gives him an acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s it's probably less since he slumped against the wall and then sorta stumbled to exit stage left but I don't really think that counts.

 

For example, it has long been believed that officers overall have a dismal 15-25 percent hit probability in street encounters, suggesting truly poor performance under the stress of a real shooting situation. Actually, this figure, while essentially true in the aggregate, is markedly skewed by certain shooting variables, Aveni found.

During a 13-year span, the Baltimore County PD, which Aveni regards as one of the best trained in the country, achieved an average hit ratio of 64 percent in daylight shootings - not ideal, but clearly much better than commonly believed. In shootings that occurred in low-light surroundings, however, average hits dropped to 45 percent, a 30 percent decline. The data from Los Angeles County (LAC) reveals a somewhat comparable 24 percent decline.

"Until this research," Aveni says, "performance has never been accurately matched to lighting conditions," even though as many as 77 percent of police shootings are believed to occur under some degree of diminished lighting. Some departments tally "outdoor" versus "indoor" shootings, but most appear not to precisely differentiate between low-light and ample-light events, despite the preponderance of shootings during nighttime duty tours.

With LAC shootings involving only one officer, an average of 3.59 police rounds were fired. When 2 officers got involved, the average jumped to 4.98 rounds and with 3 officers or more to 6.48. "The number of rounds fired per officer increases in multiple-officer shootings by as much as 45 percent over single-officer shootings," Aveni says.



https://www.policeone.com/officer-s...in-the-details-of-officer-involved-shootings/

This article is from 2005, and yet it contains a WEALTH of information about the exact topic at hand. I much recommend!

 

Hahahahahahhahahaha.

 

Please enlighten as to how one, or more, of us tickled your fancy in this thread.

 

I'm saying that shooting them in the leg isn't as effective at slowing down/stopping a perpetrator as less than lethal alternatives. If your intent is to capture the perpetrator, use the means that are most effective at slowing/stopping them, which would not be a gun. If your intent is to kill the perpetrator, use a gun.

 

and I agree, except that if at all possible police should try and preserve life, so in the event of guns being pulled and no less than lethal things being available to try and solve the situation with minimal casualties.

 

There's probably a small range/danger window in which using a gun to stop someone is a reasonable proposition.

 

The following video depicts a similar incident that has happened in Germany in 2013.

The police officer went into the fountain and the naked man walked towards him. The police officer shot the man, then the ambulance (the guys in white and red) came and tried to save the man, but he died nonetheless.

This video had caused a major outrage in Germany: There was a broad discussion the media about excessive use of deadly force. After a thorough investigation, it was found that the police officer had acted in self defense -- a person armed with a knife is very dangerous at close distances (although it was argued that he shouldn't have entered the fountain in the first place).

Even though it was found that this was a case of self defense, I was still very glad that this case had received so much media coverage and had stirred a public discussion about police brutality. Guess I can be lucky to live at a place where police is very well trained, deescalates when possible and actually is your "friend and helper".

Whenever I see the respective police brutality videos from the U.S., I wonder how you guys do not live in constant horror.

 

getting into the fountain was probably a mistake,
yelling get away twice and then firing once as he was 'cornered on the edge of the fountain as the naked knife nut walked towards him at an accelerated pace was not.

from what I've seen american cops do in these situations alexander square fountain would need extensive repairs after something like that.

 

I did not support the shooting in that case, but I'm glad that we have police brutality problems on that scale and not the primitive tribal warfare the US has to live with.

 

here west of you we have some cases of police being fond of delivering a kick or two. ( wich they shouldn't do)
and they accidentally killed someone with a chokehold recently wich has raised questions about police brutality since really you shouldn't have to put someone in a chokehold when there are 5 other people holding the same guy down.

and a few years ago they shot a 17 year old boy because he was reported as having threatened someone with a firearm, the boy was recently released from custody for a string of burglaries and possible involvement in a stabbing, upon being confronted by 3 officers at the train station and ordered to put his hands up he instead put his hands in his pockets nonchalantly. wich I think is a bad way to sass people aiming guns at you telling you to do something. the officer who shot was investigated and aquited.

 

I think the problem in a country where there is a lot of gun ownership (US, Brazil, wherever) is that no side in a confrontation can afford to take chances.

So you end up with either total capitulation to another person (hands in the air, legs apart, down on the floor) or the strongest kind of resistance (kill the cop before he kills you). Neither of these seems healthy.

I think if we were talking about a armed conflict in a different context, there would be talk of de-escalating the situation - putting down guns, establishing a dialogue, etc.

 

Btw, what the guy in the vid yelled was "Messer weg", which is a pretty elliptic version of "put the knife away"

Also, I believe it wasn't the guy stumbling who shot but a colleague who misunderstoof the situation. Oh well.

Edit: further note that they fired ONE shot and the man was stopped. He might even have survived had the shot not hit so unlucky.

Really, the US needs to grow up. The infant of countries needs to finally embrace what the spiritual leaders of the west have long learned.

 

ah I wasn't paying that much attention. listening to germans makes me want lebensraum and blame jews n stuff.

 

@Sokolov


discussing the video that you linked, some good points to be made

 

Truth is we all say this and that and you say you wouldn't shoot, but until you see a man running at you with a knife for the first time i'd like to see everyone's reactions then. Clearly any person saying "shoot him in the leg" has never fired a gun before. Police get a lot of Bane Shift, some of them are bad, some are good, being so judgemental when cops get shot at or stabbed and killed every other day.

When a cop tells you to drop the knife and has a gun aimed at you drop the knife instead of escalating things. The only time i see it being excessive force is when i see a cop shoot a man 9 times, but then again that's all adrenaline at that point so i can't say what would be the best plan of action as i wasn't there.

 

runegod seems angry, is he a cop?