Massively imbalanced in favor of the rich

The point is the only problem is the one of perception - new players don't like getting stomped by Exo/Leg/Limited, but the problem is more skill related than rune related.

 

PiggySaysWhat:

Excellent points in r/t the following wall blocking the un-uber from enjoying Pox:



Groovy feelings of unity are squashed just like the following pic by your anti-excellence comments:



Different people enjoy Pox in unique ways. Cool. Decrease complexity. Cool. Minimize/eliminate Pay2Win by increasing affordibility. Cool. Be a more welcoming community. Cool. Make snide remarks about the 1337 players and infer they don't mostly win because of superior skillz. Silly. Are you mad that doctors make WAY more money than janitors too? (Kinda off topic, but curious if you are one of those "Fair Nazis" I read about in the news all the time).

Winners find ways to win, losers find ways to complain about the winners. I have lost tens of thousands of times in life, but eventually I finally started learning how to win. Pro tip: attitude determines altitude, but one must still pursue happiness HARDCORE before the odds can ever be in your favor.

Good day, and may the universal spirit--with tentacles of nifty justice--grant you mercy and wisdom. Me too, but more.

 

I was with you until tentacles. Not tentacles, never tentacles.

 

the poor attitude in this thread is disheartening. pseudo-f2p games fail, period. this game promised easy access to new players and it did not do that. It introduced the forge system, but it is not easily accessible. Feels like diablo 3 forums all over again with people defending the game left and right when it had real serious problems that need to be addressed. Yes they made changes, but those changes aren't good enough and it still went P2W route. And no, they don't have to put a P2w element in, they could have gone an entirely different route if they wanted to and still become a successful game, they just didn't and decided to have ridiculous prices.

 

My 2 cents.

1. Some runes like expansion and legendary need to NOT be craft-able so that DOG can actually make money on people buying packs and or boxes to get them so they can afford to keep fixing bugs and issues and bring the game around.

2. THEY JUST RECEIVED THE GAME! Give them time to work out what's what. They've already made a "MASSIVE" accessibility change by adding in rune forge and letting you get almost ANYTHING with gold you gain in game. I'm sorry if some of the new comers don't like the fact that some people have decent runes and or expensive runes. This usually comes with time. No matter how "rich" a person is, they've likely been around for a long period of time. Keep at it, keep trying, people will help you, train you, mold you into a player to be respected.

3. Not once in the history of a f2p game I have played does it give you access to everything without paying or spending large amounts of time unlocking stuff. If you want those expensive runes, go play play play! A lot of high end exotics that are worth as much in a deck or more than a legendary, the core runes, are easily accessible with a little effort. Before DOG, you had to buy everything, or wait for unique sales where LE were being sold. At least now we can get them from packs and boxes with gold. All it takes is a user getting lucky and pulling a good box to change their whole pox career, and likely outlook.

4. Just give DOG some time. They are doing their best to get a hold of what soe left them to get on top of it so they can start worrying about what will make this game grow. Instead of complaining, cheer them on. Give them the energy to want to do this and when they finally fix immediate issues, they will make even larger leaps for the players and bring this game back to its old glory. Come on people, the time it takes you to make a thread like this, you could have played a game or two and been that much closer to being one of the "expensive dudes"

5. Have a great day!

 

Heh, I thought Hearthstone would be the most luck and draw based game in the world compared to Pox. In Pox Nora you can ALWAYS win a game with skill. I play this game for so long now and I am really glad to be back, because Pox is so much better than Hearthstone

I understand that it is very difficult for new players to get started and learn the game, but tbh - Pox needs to be difficult and complex, thats part of its attraction. You can learn hearthstone within an hour, but you will never ever have the complexity and strategical depth you can experience in Pox.

The best advice i can give new players is to play in the training ground until you beat everyone there or win most of your matches. You still gonna lose lots of games when you start playing ranked, but the TG is the best place to learn. This is how I started and learned the game, with the exception that a friend of mine already played pox and taught me the basics. That was a great help, but it still was hard to learn the game and it took me a long time until I was was good enough for ranked play. I played many games in the TG and actually I always enjoyed it to play vs strong players or runes, because it was a challenge and you could learn something.
Back then the TG was decently filled with new players so it was not too hard to find an equal opponent. I don't know how the situation is today, but I'd guess that there are not enough new players, which is sad. It is certainly a problem that there are a lot of experienced players and only a few new players.
I believe we really have to try to create the best enviroment possible for new players, because Pox desperately needs them. Of course, our community is not always ne newbie-friendliest and the forums can be a rough place if you ask the wrong questions, but there many many good guys around so don't be bothered by the bad guys


Also, this game is not and never was p2w. If you focus on one faction and have some skill you can be very succesful while spending very little or no money.

 

1. those runes need to be accessible, or it is P2w, no way around that.

2. before rework you could also save 150k gold and traded for most of the runes you want... im sorry if newcomers don't like the game and leave for better games out there `` Don't advertise the game as F2p if it's going to be pseudo-F2P in the name of making money. There's over a decade of other online gaming examples out there on why P2W is bad, and the perception of P2W is bad.

3. dota 2. league of legends although 'successful', has a design flaw in its ip grinding to unlock champions/runes too, and that contributes to players locking into small selection of champion pool and being too costly to try new champs.

4. they could make this game grow by following a true accessible f2p model to massively expand player base, THEN with the said player base they could make money. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg anymore to run a server in 2014.

 

I hope they change the TG decks fast because they really went out of their way to 'dumb down' or put restrictions on a lot of the runes and their upgrades, and no they do not facilitate proper learning. It's a lot better to learn with a proper set of meta upgrades for the meta ruens rather than going out of their way to water down runes and give them improper upgrades.

this game was P2W... and still is P2W... if you focus on one faction with a lot of TIME invested yeah you can theoretically invest very little, but what if you want to play another faction?

There's too much entitlement with the idea where a player MUST pay at some point. A true successful F2p game expects a majority of players to not pay, because the player base is so important even if they are playing for free. We dont ever see grudges from devs or players in league of legends or dota2 just because a lot of players don't pay...

 

I'd like to state that they are. Buy using the gold you "farm" and not pay for to get packs for the LEGS. Once a new expansion rolls around the old one will be put into the extended set for gold and then forgeable. Complain all you want about accessibility. You're going to eventually if you're "patient" get any rune you want. -_-

 

Will the REAL Nidhogg, please stand up
Oh wait; he did!

 

This game is entirely f2p because with "time" you can get every rune in the game right now with 0 money and in game gold. p2w should now be renamed play to win. Because the more you play, the more gold you get. You open that one extended core pack that has a K'ento or korona, you can trade that for almost a whole really decent BG worth of stuff. Fact of the matter is, the only people that call this p2w are people that just got here relatively recent and are going against players who have been here forever. It's saddening.

Also, you can have the most pimped out deck, but if you're bad, you lose. So even if you've bought everything, it doesn't make up for lack of skill.

 

Well, technically Pox is a true f2p game now, because you are able to acquire all content with gold at some point. I get your point that it greatly helps to spend some money in order to get more runes in less time, but this alone doesn't make a game p2w !

What we could do, is discussing possibilities to improve Pox Nora's f2p experience, but that's a different thread I guess.
Just a thought: If draft tickets would be purchasable with gold, that'd be a good addition for f2p users. It would be a little like the hearthstone arena mode, which is pretty addicting I think ^^

 

Here's an idea... Maybe I will work this out into a proper suggestion, but for now I'm just wondering what you all think about it:

Use the entire Core set to provide an amazing (free) experience for new players.

In other words, make core content very cheap to acquire, throw tons and tons of stuff from the core set at the players, as reward for any kind of activity (that's how successful free to play games draw you in). And most importantly, allow new players to play in a Core league, where they will only ever encounter other Core players.

From a player engagement perspective, this makes a lot of sense. In one strike you solve the problem of the game being too expensive, and the game being too complex. Not just do you dramatically cut down on the number of runes a new player needs to learn just to not feel like a stumbling idiot, but the Core set runes also tend to be a lot simpler and more streamlined than the extended ones.

From a business perspective, this also makes a lot of sense. New players are not likely to spend any money unless they are hooked on the game, so using the Core set you can get them hooked and hopefully convert some of them to paying customers. At the same time, veterans are not likely to care much about the Core set, so making the Core set cheaper is not likely to lose you a lot of business (if any).

In a sense, Pox Nora Core would become the true training grounds, an accessible gateway to Pox Nora. It would also be a constant. Where Pox Nora Extended becomes more complicated and expensive with every new expansion, Pox Nora Core is reliable and provides the same experience to every new player.

I really think this could be a huge success. The time when I was most active in the game was during the Dawn of Elements expansion, which is just three expansions ahead of the Core set. And it was awesome. All the complexity that was added since then is IMO not just unhelpful to the new player experience, but actively harmful.

Sure, it would be a massive "demo" of the game, and a lot of players would play the heck out of this without ever paying. But that is how you make a successful free to play game these days. Create a great experience that draws players in, then convert a small part of them to paying customers or even whales. What do the Owls really have to lose? Figuring out how to make the game attractive to new players again is going to be the major challenge, and this looks like a really promising way to go about it to me.

 

The free "core set" you got in Hearthstone was one thing I enjoyed a lot when I started the game. You had a lot of cards to choose from when making your deck. I was also able to learn about basic mechanics and deck design through these cards.

I enjoyed the games I played when I first started on Poxnora because the cards were fairly simple, only having a few abilities, and it was on you to figure out when to use what. I think making that available to players would be great.
The large card pool is a hindrance from a learning and collection standpoint. By offering a format with fewer runes to read, and fewer runes to collect, you offer a reasonable starting point for players.

Possibly more importantly, this allows us to recruit friends to try out the game. We can play games with them without them needing to make an investment in the game.

Players that enjoy this format can go on to make decks with the extended cards. However, they need to start somewhere, and the investment both in learning about the game, and buying runes from the huge extended set which may or may not go together is too much.

 

What it comes down to, is my kf Harby is a significantly expensive rune and dosent represent my power level but my undying need to spend money and Bane Shift that dosent mean anything, compare mean to grimthir, mena is so much better than grimthir and one is like 300% cheaper to own than the other.

 

As a solo ironfist player I know my merit doesn't hold that much in the Long aspect of gaming experience as I mostly only choose to fight with IS themes.

While strange to most, this wasn't forge out of zealotry or anything but the need to keep the game as cheap as I wanted. My friends said that you should play one faction and trade out of that faction till you have the core runes. I was building the collection us slowly in the bazaar but through the small level of play(that most new players really need to experience). Soon I took those skills to use with the draft system and with the Limited edition runes now added I quickyl found a new outlet for truely competitive play, playing for tickets and trading for them to achieve a road to success.


As my IS collection grew, and powercreep advanced, I found myself getting left behind while IS was "down in the dumps" Most of the time Paladins remained the most competitive( and expensive) theme in the game( still is today if you want the premium legendary and limited edition version) but I didn't have the runes for that so I just played Meta IS for the longest, taking combos and wins through their success and times of actual progression to becoming a fluid faction, I enjoyed the ride and hated it. Older expansions became cheaper and I was able to get the runes of the single trade store that I thought impossible to get.

Then Soe got cool and started doing weekend rune giveaways in tournaments, thats really when my collection took off and my interest for the game went from peaked, to addicted.

I could go on and on, but Basically Im saying ever since the Free to play movement was started in Poxnora, it has made the game cheaper as a whole and new they need to focus on getting the game to bustle(which recently has already doing) If people don't want to grind gold for pack that have high marshalls in them(yes the 3500 ones are my addiction) then pay for it. But as it is now, this game only takes time to hit the high life.

 

I just think it's funny people still think appealing to the players that love pvp is the way to go. I signed on the other day to 150 people in campaigns 20 doing dailies and a total of 52 in battlegrounds and training grounds. This game need's some sort of co-op against bots or people being able to play bot's or it will die yet again. Especially with pox having such a high learning curve and the noobs that we call the best player's making multiple account's and farming noobs.

 

I just want to point out that I started when this game had the original training grounds, everyone played with locked BGs you couldn't upgrade or change anything unless you bought runes.

I got DESTROYED in like every game I played in the TG for like a while. You have to lose to get better at this game, that's never going to change.

That being said if you want to just play around in TG now you can earn gold and get free runes...this is leaps and bounds above how things were when I started.

It might not be perfect but it's moving in the right direction.

 

Honestly DOG has the potential and support 100%, we as a community do our part in making sure we're heard. We always had hopes for this game, and for great reasons. This game kicks so much ass, and has the ability to be a huge hit, it is..already is in our eyes. Why not others too? I mean we fight tooth and nail for this game and some of us still play to this day; those that joined pox when it first started still pop in and out and some diehards (like myself are still here!) why? The situation verys, I myself enjoy pox so much, it's become a huge part of OUR lives.

I want this game to soar so others can experience what we all feel. taking things in and understanding that DOG is going fix this game is going to be a big step for some.. and granted it will take time, but as I said. They have the potential and support to go very, very far.


*edited cause I'm a dumb dumb.

 

Ok, lets say I'm the game dev and I make every rune cost 10 mil gold each. Every time you win a game, or gain gold, you only receive 1 gold. Do you think this is a F2P game? Let's face it, eventually with TIME you can get everything, it must be F2P right? Would you fall for this? Would you realize at some certain hypothetical critical point, spending time is not an option to grind out everything, and old poxnora and current poxnora are way beyond that critical point? You know the old pox was technically F2P too under your definition because you could have grinded 150/300/500k runes and traded for everything you wanted? Why do you think players did not fall for that?