Hey now, please don't misquote me! I said x and y do pretty much the same thing to the same level, yet x is cheaper and as such more efficient. absolutely any cost of champ can be efficient if it has enough bang for the buck - the point I was making with the cannoneer is that for his cost he does a LOT of long range damage. Anyway i'm not going to get dragged any further into this debate, i've made my point and now i'll leave you guys to discuss it.
? Not going to get dragged into it? You made this thread. You're pretty much the only one arguing that the cannoneer is the most efficientest champ in the game but totally doesn't need nerfs.
Again a misquote - I said it is one of the most efficient - I actually mentioned in my last post that the Voltaic Slag was probably the most efficient. The reason I created the thread was so people could discuss it, as a lot of other threads were being derailed on this subject because of Burns quote in his signature.
i'm not misquoting. i'm telling you what i (and apparently everyone else reading you) am getting out of your post. if you feel that how the majority of the readers responding are misinterpreting you, perhaps you should consider rewording your message. not to drag you back into this, of course.
Yeah, maybe we should convince the SL population (oh wait that's just burn and krezio lolol) to use Cannoneer so we can all get wins easier.
Best ranged champ in the game, which also happens to be the one of the most efficient, is the Scarlet Wing. If that champion was a 10, this one would be a 6 or 7 at best, with a good many in between. He might have decent stats if he can be a turret but recoil is going to be a draw on AP the longer he's active. If he's ever contacted he's going down like paper kite in the rain. He's a glass cannon without much cannon and alot of glass.
I don't know how to quote properly so that it shows Baskitkase said this, so if someone could tell me how later, that would be great. @Moles1909 You're right! Power Attack and Recoil is efficient design; providing a useful ability you were going to be using anyway while still discounting the unit. HOWEVER, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: I'm not the most experienced player. I've been playing for around 3 weeks but I've been active on the forums and I've learned a lot from that. If a more experienced player than I has something to say about a champion that does not match up with my limited experience, I definitely will respect their experience because anecdotal evidence is just that. I've only been here a very short time, but I've begun to think that the mods/greens (what's the difference?) on this forum do not appropriately weigh the experience of Limited or Battlemaster players against their own. While BP is mentally incapable of any level of patience with the current state of the game, someone willing to wade through his neck deep vitriol can learn a lot about the game. H0spy, Baskit, and Covah are the only other high profile players I am aware of that frequent the forums with suggestions, and the three of them are pretty much in agreement that your statement is coming from a place of ignorance - perhaps you should, calmly, reconsider defending your point of view adamantly and instead question the fairness of the other ranged options that exist. I implore you to do so - you have a lot of sway over where this game goes, and it seems pretty clear that the playerbase does NOT feel like you are appropriately handling their suggestions. The only faction I really play extensively, and have the warbanner for, is SL. I like meta Dragons and meta Draksar but lack some crucial Exos. I've gotten to Gold #300 in this much time playing almost exclusively Skeezicks because all of the important core units are common or uncommon. In this case, I feel that my experience with Skeezick Cannoneer matches what Baskitkase has said above. Scarlet Wing, Dead Fairy, and various Angels all have flying. Intensify is a joke - when you deploy 3 units with it in the first 3 turns of the game, supported by defensive spells, they WILL intensify. Moga Cannon has AoE damage and 7 speed. These champions are much more difficult to close into melee on. Skeezick Cannoneer is a DECENT unit, with good range, mediocre damage of the weakest type, an inability to deal with any unit that manages to close the gap, and it's strongest in a theme that is not currently very well supported. Draksar Psion for example, has Magic Attack which provides a SECOND unusual attack type and the ability to finish off a target which does slip too close to the back lines. THAT is an example of beautiful, efficient design. KF and (around fonts) IS champions have an extra point of speed at any given time, so their faction bonus is useful for ranged units trying to doubletap. The few UD ranged champions benefit from extra damage. Skeezick Cannon has NO support from the faction or font bonus - an extra rank of Regen at 7 range? -20% damage? I think that Recoil on a unit like Cannoneer should warrant slightly more of a discount. While other champions can doubletap quite easily, Skeezick cannon almost always needs 9 AP to do so: 4 for a Power Attack and 5 for a standard attack. With its very mediocre 6 speed; a Draconic Benediction leaves you with 8 AP, meaning that the previous turn must have been spent positioning the Cannoneer so as to be 5 or 6 spaces from the target in order to doubletap - 7 spaces means that the first attack recoils you out of range, leaving you out of range with 5 AP. Double power attack is 10 AP. If Skeezick Cannoneer had a rank of Leap, it would provide it with slightly more mobility around terrain (which Skeezick and non-dragon SLs lack) and would be flavorfully appropriate (rocket jump). If Skeezick Cannon had +1 damage, or spd, or something, it would be more on par with other options in terms of pure efficiency. You could even take this opportunity to introduce a new ability, Rocket Jump for various tortuns/draksar rocketeer/etc., which would function similarly to leap with some sort of drawback (i.e. consumes or requires 1 Ammo or does some self-inflicted damage)
So how efficient was Skeezick Sniper? I feel like he was everything but the bicycle chain - fully functioning except for actually being able to control it. Was still nerfed. @sharang2: Recoil on ANY unit would do that (unless it has a very large range coverage). Rage Band removes recoil altogether, while providing pretty great stats! ...on the other hand, it costs more nora and an equip that will have to be factored in if you do this consistantly. Hmm, I want a melee unit with recoil for hit-and-run strategies now (wouldn't be as good as actual hit-and-run, though).
Oh but it would, the act of recoiling would cause an AP gain of 1, so simply by firing you'd gain yourself 1 ap. Edit: Misread. Thought was talking about a recoil champ with hit and run.
