ok, since a few players decided to make a joke of it, I thought maybe i'd gather some other people's view on the subject of the Skeezick Cannoneer. I made a comment that I think SL has some excellent ranged options and that the skeezick Cannoneer is one of the most efficient range champions in the game, at no point did I say that the cannoneer is OP, or that it needed a nerf, I actually think he's pretty good where he is at the moment. 5-7 range keeps him nice and safe while he hits for 16's with Power attack 3 with no downside of recoil for 4ap a turn. Also, on a DB powerturn where he gets a chance to hit with 2 power attacks, he's capable of doing a lot of damage. All of this only costs you 67 nora. Like I say I don't think he's OP and don't think he needs a nerf but wanted to hear some others peoples thoughts on this.
Couple things. 1. You don't make a thread like this if you don't want the guy changed. 2. He's actually been nerfed from where he was at one point. 3. You're a mod, given your propensity for moving nonsense around, I'm at a loss as to why you feel this would be better suited to gen over the SL forum, unless of course your goal is to get the guy nerfed. TLDR: You want this guy nerfed.
No, his goal is to convince us that Skeezick cannoneer is the most efficient ranged unit in the game.
It is and it isnt, the original post was intended to be serious, most of us are just having a hard time getting to grips with that.
I'm still yet to hear a single example of a more efficient ranged champ than the skeezick cannoneer? I still think he's in top 3 most efficient. Actually the reason I made the thread is because several people had laughed at the suggestion that the cannoneer was one of the best ranged options, I was hoping somebody could give me a few examples of more efficient ranged options. Again i'll repeat - I don't think he's OP he's in a good place imo.
Deadly Tracker, Moga Cannoneer, Multiple Angels, Draksar Psion, Undead Fairy, Augur of the Deep, Tundra Whisperer, Voltaic Slag, those are just a few off the top of my head.
Let's find some middle ground here, he's a very good budget ranged champ that everyone probably has even us noobs, I think I do too, and he's probably at least x1 auto in any Skeezick BG. Fair enough?
ok. Thanks for the constructive post. The dead fairy - a good ranged champ, undeniably efficient right now - it has the same damage and a DoT but no power attack, has 7 speed and initiative however it comes at a price of 81 nora, compared to 67 for the cannoneer, which although is slightly more vulnerable he has more damage output and +1 range on the fairy, for a lot cheaper. Moga Cannon - a lot of people would say that the moga cannon is OP. their damage output is fairly similar, they both have similar mobility and the moga cannon has 1 less range, but the capability of doing AoE damage. I'd agree the Moga cannon is the better champ, but again he's 11 nora more expensive than the cannoneer, with 1 less range. Angels - really? unless I missed something they're all around 85+ nora and take 10 turns to intensify (feel free to provide a specific example of one) Draksar Psion - when making my statement, I mentioned the Psion and the Cannoneer together, no doubting his efficiency as a cheap range champion both are similarly efficient imo. Deadly tracker - again another really strong champ costing around 4-5 more nora than the cannoneer with similar damage output when taking deep wounds and power attack into consideration, the tracker is more expensive, has 3-4 range until you can deploy 3 elves and even once you have deployed 3 elves has 1 less range, so i'd say they're similar in efficiency if not the cannoneer being slightly more efficient. Augur - now that posion cloud abuse was sorted out, for 85 nora, you get two less range a bit more damage output and more mobility. I think i'd rather deploy the cannoner for 15-20 nora less. Volt Slag - yep I agree on this one. I'd probably say the slag is the most undercosted range champ out there - because Dissipate is costed at -12 nora! the cost of dissipate definitely needs to be looked at imo. Tundra whisper - two very different champions, tundra whisper is undeniably efficient as a support range option, but as a pure ranged option the cannoneer has a lot more damage output and still comes in cheaper, which is mainly what I was considering - long range damage output for cheap cost. So as you can see, yes cannoneer is imo within the top 3 most efficient ranged champs
I think you're misunderstanding me - I said he is one of the most efficient, not the most efficient. I didn't say he was OP, or the best ranged champ, simply efficient.
1. Im right 2. I am right. 3. 1 & 2 are right. As you can see, I am right and skeezick cannoneer is not top efficiency.
Truthfully, the difference is that most other ranged options have utility support, like survivability (ST Angel), Wishes (T.Wisp), or just straight up boosting (Leoss Magnate). Even priest of valdac is decent range when set up and supported appropriately- I lost games when haunting grip was still OP(er) because I underestimated an opponent whose only range magic was those priests. But the inquiry was upon ranged capability and that alone. 4 ap to make a power attack, with 6 speed and even with 5-7 range, he's not going to attack more than once a turn on average by default- - so that power attack extra 6 or so damage makes up for that kind of. Dead fairy on the other hand can likely get two taps off in a turn, and then run away a little, still in the same turn Each tap can hit different targets, each target can then suffer the full DoT from diseased 5 on down. It can actually easily surpass cannoneer's damage output potential off of DoTs alone, on multiple targets. And every double attack is 18-20 damage from the fairy, which competes with the single power attacks of the cannoneer. Also.... Elven Mage Gnarlwood Launcher Centaur Archer Anything KF Jakei Frost Queen Jakei Elder Anything ST Highly Ranged Slags with Paralyctic Feedback/absorb Cyclops when themed and boosted Moga Cannon Pretty much anything SP Nora Artillery (I don't care if it's a spell, it's OP AF) Tortun Land Cannon Shardseers and a whole bunch of ranged heroes. But it's worth keeping in mind- - much of the good range before the revamp, has turned into bitter, bitter melee.
the main thing that i'm getting out of this post is that you think "efficient" is supposed to mean (or at least imply) "cheap" it is not. efficiency is about bang for your buck, so (as a non-pox example) you could buy the frame of a bicycle (but without any of the things that make it actually work *as* a bicycle. like tires. lights. spokes. gears. handles. chains. whatever.) and spend little money. that is not *efficient* if your goal is to spend the money to get a functioning bicycle, yeah? because, among other things, your bicycle frame doesn't move when you sit painfully on it (no seat either. think about it) and shout GIDDYUP if all you do when you talk about efficiency is say "well yeah but this costs less", then you're probably not approaching the subject correctly. jafeel?
What does efficient even MEAN? Seriously. More stats on paper for lower cost? Better at actually killing stuff compared to the price paid? Against who, do we consider every opposing decktype at large or just some particular ones? Do we think about the faction in general, what decks are made out of or...? Is damage type a consideration? edit: ninja'd by dagda <3. with a clearer post too.
