Regarding UD balance changes

Assuming you are talking about nefari guardian then this is completely wrong.

If stats/abilities were costed perfectly then it comes down to design, and to internal or external synergy, as to what is OP. This rune clearly has a synergistic interaction between resistance physical, high def and hitpoints, and bodyguard - combined with a extremely streamlined design to keep the cost down.

 

we meant for free

 

I just wanted to mention that Korona is 72/74 nora. Which is fricking loltastic.

 

I think that, in general, support units shouldn't be also tanks and skirmishers.

Faction bonus be damned

 

I think we are getting a little carried away over one champ. Sok can you do a break down of alt dmg compared to physical. Melee and Ranged. Not saying physical isnt the most prevalent in the game. I am just saying each faction has options for alt dmg.

My take away from this thread is that this is a perfect model champ for champ templates on how to build efficient units. So basically you need to sandbag him with an ability that doesn't ruin him but he is better without. Shatter or some kind of equip removal would work, maybe some kind of anti-spell ability, something that would work on him but most would rather not. AKA tunnel lava on fire champs. Firking hate that ability as lava is a pitd to splash around all over the battle field.

 

My way to fix it is nerfing phys resist and start costing hp up from 45 higher. Same with defense up from 2, higher.

 

Grapper and Patriarch unanimously agree that the solution to Nefari Guardian is +16 Nora. "Never Forget! Never Forgive!"

On a more serious note, I agree with the notion that the self-synergy and fat-free design are the root cause and prefer that runes be fixed within the rules of the costing system.

 

Should be noted that UD doesn't have really great options to fight vs all those crazy ranged units, don't see what is bad with UD having option to defend themselves. Better nerf that Skeezick Netter which is still OP.

 

Here's the problem, what do Underdepths players do to deal with range and with other durable champions if they don't have durability of their own?

You might not like Nefari Guardian, but there's a reason you're seeing him so much. It's literally all we have against a handful of decks that will otherwise tear us apart before we can begin to fight back.

 

I'd like to see the baseline in play.

There are about 15 common core set runes for each faction. How about you pick 5 per faction and make them pure stats (like Nefari Guardian but with no optional abilities). Let them loose on the meta and see what stats in isolation are really worth.

(Maybe give the mandatory regen to SL, amphibious to FS, and arctic to ST champs though)

 

You should also consider the fact that bodyguard is either bugged. or functions in very strange ways.
For example, if you attack with a knockback unit on a bodyguarded unit, that unit is not knockbacked. nor is the bodyguarding unit.
Second example, vulnerabilities are negated by bodyguard if you attack a unit with a vuln, the vuln never procs which essentially means bodyguard reduces damage further etc. lots of different effects interact in a variety of different, sometimes silly ways when a unit is bodyguarded that exacerbates the issue. @Sokolov

 

the only problem with nefari guardian is that physical resistance is overpowered/undercosted. besides it having physical damage and this damage type being way too common in UD and most factions.

 

Death Guard 3 def and 44 hp for no nora or Nefari Guardian 3 def and 9 dmg for 65 nora.

 

It's 13 damage with the faction bonus. I just played a game against a nefari guardian using lonx. If I didn't have hammerfall lonx with frost attack that nefari would have tanked (and bruised) most of my champs with 3 defense and resistance: physical.

 

You just played me lol, and yes correctly you used alt damage which is what the people moaning about this rune are too lazy too do. (also mine has resistance phys 2)

 

I keep hearing that UD needs help against range but I rarely see ranged deployed against UD because as soon as a range champ is dropped you have demon shield + arrow eater champs (vothsair, pincushion etc..) deployed immediately. Also I know you were only running resistance 2 but my 16 damage champ was dealing 8 and you weren't even running the best build.