I'd like to see Worms be more reliant upon each other rather than have snowballing super-champs like Blinking Creeper and Putrid Creeper currently are. Cheaper than average, weaker than average, slower than average and so forth, but their ability to expand the SDZ is what should compensate for that. In order to prevent that from becoming so "swingy", Worm Lord needs to come back as a way to pace SDZ expansion. +1 SDZ from deploy and -1 SDZ from death has already shown to be ineffective on its own, but +1 SDZ from kills without any stipulations is either useless or game-winning. There's also the fact that this version of Necrosis completely shafts all non-FW Worms. Bringing back Worm Lord revives SF Worm BG's, provides a more controlled pacing (and counterplay for opponents) while re-establishing the original mentality of Worms to swarm one target at a time as they steadily "creep" forward. I'm also heavily in favor of removing Dusk Creeper as a all-encompassing crutch for FW as a whole.
Hmm... It's "another" clause, but something liek this might be neat. Worm Lord: Some general buff thing for Worms. I am actually thinking it buffs the Worm Lord unit itself. Necrosis: When this unit is deployed from the runedock or when this unit destroys an opposing unit with a basic attack, your shrine's Deployment Zone expands by 1. When this unit is destroyed, if it is not within 5 spaces of a friendly champion with Worm Lord, your shrine's Deployment Zone is reduced by 1. This effect does not increase the size of the Shrine bonus and cannot decrease the shrine's Deployment Zone below 3.
Crazy Brainstorm Mode: Necrosis- This champion can also be deployed on a Nora globe. Revision- each worm/anthropod would get Necrosis in 1 upgrade and a globe collection benefit ability in 2nd upgrade. (ala dead eater, forage, fading light etc...)
What if Necrosis was simply reversed? Necrosis: When this unit is destroyed expand your shrine deployment zone by 1. When this unit is deployed reduce your shrines deployment zone by 1 to a minimum of 3. Worm Lord: When a friendly worm or anthropod, including this unit, within 5 spaces destroys an opposing unit expand your shrine deployment zone by 1 and this unit gains +1 dmg. Basically it negates early game and aims for the mid/late game.
Not big on the proximity checks to lords. There are already a million boost- and phalanx-style themes out there, and anything which requires bunching and proximity is going to turn worms into that again, just with a different taste to the tofu.
What I like about it is that it gives the potential for growth of the SDZ, while giving enemy players a way to play against it; a compromise between old Necrosis and new Necrosis. I also don't see this as enabling a Phalanx or Boost style BG at all, especially if the Worm Lord is the one that benefits (for example, with something along the lines of Bulwark in terms of effect type).
Would it be possible to give champions with Necrosis a deployment animation similar to "swallow whole"? Like they tunnel up through the earth? Would be cool... Worm Lord could be: "Units within your deployment zone in AoE gain Shrine Defender (or w/e), and their death does not trigger Necrosis". I think tying it up like this is easier, since you can "see the AoE" via Worm Lord, as it would (I think) be hard to show via Necrosis.
I mean as in bunching everything together in nice little packages to gain effects. Feels like it works against the more natural and unique effects of expanding SDZ -- deploying at multiple fronts around the field.
For the first wave of changes, let's not go straight to a general buff. I'd also like to avoid propping up the Worm Lord too much. In my suggested kits for the two Worm Lords, one has Declare Target and the other has forms of Sunder. Both act as a buff to Worms when taking down targets as opposed to generic stat bumps. I'd rather give Worm Lords separate abilities they can use when needed than jack up the cost of Worm Lord with passive buffs. We can always come back and give Worm Lord a small buff, if needed. Necrosis currently costs 4N. My goal, in stripping it down to just +1 SDZ on-deploy, is to lower it to 2N. I'm aiming for cheaper Worms with sub-par stats that add up to slightly above average with numbers. Also, this version of Necrosis doesn't change anything about the current interaction beyond serving as a buff. Currently, Necrosis is +1/-1 on-deploy/death with +1 from kills. Allowing players to ignore the -1 on death clause through an early Worm Lord deploy (which would also be buffed per the above) makes the swinginess of SDZ worse. With my version, +1 SDZ from kills (only champions) is only possible when a Worm Lord is nearby, but -1 SDZ on death is dropped so that Worm players are less afraid to use sacrifice mechanics (example: Ravish currently causes -1 SDZ) and occasionally send Worms out on their own. Lastly, Worms become more splashable outside of theme as Necrosis is less of a sandbag if it always gives +1 SDZ without also threatening wild SDZ growth from Necro Hex. On the other hand, non-Worm champs aren't as dangerous in a Worms BG because in order to achieve consistent SDZ growth across games, most champion slots will be dedicated to Worm Lords and Worm champs with Necrosis. Each non-Worm/Necrosis champ decreases the potential for SDZ growth. Again, it's not so much a compromise as a straight buff. My version weakens Necrosis while returning Worm Lord. Your version buffs Necrosis and returns a buffed Worm Lord. If you're wanting to provide a method for the opponent to shrink SDZ, you could cause a Worm Lord's death to trigger -2/3 SDZ (further lowering the cost of Worm Lord) and/or create a stipulation that SDZ shrinks by 1 every turn that you don't have at least 1-2 units in your SDZ.
I agree to the extent that Worms shouldn't feel obligated to bunch up at all times. Pulling units closer to trigger the +1 SDZ from Worm Lord seems like a great way to pace SDZ expansion without requiring Worms to stay bunched up. This feels too slow, as Worms usually need reinforcements just before they start dying. This is even slower. +1 DMG to the Worm Lord from nearby kills is appealing, though. We could set that aside as a possible buff down the road. Not a fan of turning Worms into pseudo Nora-gen. It conflicts with the desire to move Dusk Creeper away from such. +10! Certainly a QOL change, but it would help newer players come to terms with what's happening faster. AoE Shrine Defender is interesting, but I'd want to hold off on implementing it right away. It might not be necessary if we make the appropriate changes to the individual Worm champs. Also, I'd prefer dropping the -1 SDZ on death, entirely, rather than building it into Worm Lord.
Yeah, maybe. Should have specified -- I was responding to Sok's suggestion that Lords negate the death decrease. In that case, it forces bunching a lot more than just when looking for kills.
You know I'm curious, Sokolov... I've noticed a lot of FW range has been nerfed by their actual RANGE. Example is Serkan is range 6 now. Shadestriker is range 4 now... And many others. Is there a reason for this? Did the devs assume dusk creeper would be added to boost them back to their original range?
Range is expensive. Lots of factions got their ranged nerfed. FW has 2 good range units atm, the Hoarfrost Lich and that snake girl, I forget how to spell her name, with preparation. The Utterdark wormhole guy and the Warlock are also decent, but a bit more niche.
I wouldn't mind the Dusk Creeper being a support for melee units. Doesn't exist atm, but Sustain: Defenseless would be a badass support ability that he himself can't take advantage of. I'd probably say: Base: Sustain: Defenseless [7 Nora] (NEW) Attack: Physical [0 Nora] Frightful Blows [3 Nora] (Cost modifier -5 due to it being for support uses. At 5 speed and ranged, it is unlikely he will be able to use this once engaged. The purpose is reducing an enemy's damage by 3, the inability to attack him is almost a non-issue) Necrosis [4 Nora] Upgrade #1: Sentinel [6 Nora] (Additional support for Frightful Blows) (DEFAULT) Grant: Evasive [5 Nora] (Minor anti-ranged support) Upgrade #2: Scour 1 [3 Nora] (A weak damage modifier with a -1 DEF debuff) (DEFAULT) Nightfall [3 Nora] (Minor stealth support) Base Cost: 58 Max Cost: 58 Min Cost: 57 Short version, make him a cheap, general, support unit. Not crazy, but not expensive. Also, what's with Sentinel and Blindfire? They look to do the same thing now, except blindfire is 15 nora and the sentinel is 6 (and sentinel isn't just limited to ranged attacks)?
It certainly is simple, but I'd rather make a more comprehensive change in anticipation of Worm adjustments than a half-measure that is likely to be redone later on.
Yup. The quick swap of stats is a backup plan in case it suddenly becomes a pressing issue, or if Sok needs a quick fix to accompany other changes (such as front-loading buffs onto Soul Collector or some other champ prior to modifying worms).
