Uh, I think it's a viable 1x. I still need to get closer to optimal play with it, though, to have a more definitive opinion. Because it can trigger on allies and Portal has a long CD, there's going to be some more nuance to making it work well than just in-an'-out.
what why is zit short for creeping pustule D: I thought it was an acronym or something Yeah i have 1 it seems decentish
do you have a recent iteration of your worms deck kal? Most people here have quite varying degrees of worms used!
Not worth the space. Includes need to either increase SDZ, abuse SDZ, have support power while you build SDZ, or address an important hole. The more nora dumped outside of those areas, as well as space devoted, the worse things will go in-game. Note that the wild cards are mostly the runes that fall outside of one of those four categories. Once the rest of the list gets further ironed out, though, that might be a piece of tech worth considering. If Blood Crest does get in, it won't be "because there are four Vampires" -- it'll be because it interacts in a unique and favorable way with some sub-set of the deck. Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think it might be a good idea. It'll really depend on the format, and the maps, and a bunch of other things, but there are scenarios where it could be powerful.
Running a second Mobi, no regrets. The Zit certainly seems playable. I think it's a stable 1x right now, because on-demand portal shenanigans are pretty good, and it can cover your own units. Not the strongest rune in the deck, but I think it does enough at the moment to warrant the include. Really don't think Martyr is pulling its weight, at least haven't felt it do any work (haven't even deployed it, never seemed smart). Enervating Collar is definitely a must. Spot Dispel is too strong to pass. More notes: Giving up mid-font is also a completely viable strategy. On some maps it's probably even inevitable, if you want to win. Bloodworm of all things might be a core of the deck now? Definitely sticking with Torrent/Lord on Colossus, however tempting Surge may look. I wish eye wasn't made of toilet paper. I'd argue 1x Skull of Decay is core if you are running 2x BZ at min-cost, so that you can more reasonably grind down enemies after SDZ growth. Tiny was running Dusk at 6 SPD rather than Empowered, and he is probably right. Dusk gets a surprising amount of pecks in for being such a bad combat champ, and that SPD is valuable for movement. The 4 nora isn't quite worth it. Gemma made a good argument about running Aura on Phantasmal, and I might try it out. Maybe going 1/1? That sounds best. I'm running Rotmaw with Shatter/Zeal, and it stinks not having Opp Assault. That champ has dropped severely in my worms power rankings over about the last 6 months. He is a bit too expensive to be bulk, and too narrow to feel like a versatile include. Not set on dropping the one yet, though.
Does anyone else have games where you wonder if worms are maybe super insanely broken, it's just that noone has quite gotten them down yet? That's the gut feeling that keeps me playing worms. When played correctly -- every loss feels like the result of some fundamental mistake more so than a deck weakness -- their presence and long-term threat is horrifically oppressive. Some very specific things can give the deck trouble, such as Acid immunity and Battle Leader, but even those can be circumvented by the deck's remaining tools. To be clear, I'm not saying they need a nerf, because this perception could be the product of numerous other things. Regardless, does anyone else get that same sense? I've had about three games today where I never really felt like the deck could lose. Might do a more thorough review of worms at present, and talk about weird worms-specific games concepts, such as SDZ stagflation.
Shatter is great in current meta.And people dont really expect anti equipment in FW. This is my current bg. I had a lot of doubts about mindthief creeper but with the new maps,he is superb at grabbing font quickly and quietly. Adaptation is sometimes useless,sometimes great. Snuff is amazing,would run 3 if i could.Its such an amazing debuff and you can get an enemy to -4def from liability. Absorb magic is great,no duration and goes on cooldown as soon as you cast it. Mist of the dead and plague trap also help with controling fonts and screwing with enemy.
where are all your core FW things like anathema, steal life, despoil, tomb/tome? I live for those crutch runes
Tome is in there, although I use it with care so that it doesn't eat up the important squishies. Tomb doesn't fit, I feel -- doesn't do enough, gets stuffed by Phantasmal. I've never used Anathema in anything. I guess it's a good spell, but I don't like it and have never felt the need. Despoil is pretty good. Run it if you want. Similar to Anathema, I've never played Steal Life, although I like the thing less. Those two spells don't seem core to me.
I'm working on a worms primer. They are sufficiently different to warrant more than just rune reviews, although there will be that as well. Here's the rough outline: Worms-Specific Strategy and Description Philosophy The role of SDZ Gas in the tank The Tide Multi-purpose movement forward and backward within expanded SDZ -- control space, create opportunities, stay safe, avoid giving AP Optimization Absolutely necessary, because a single SDZ is a huge amount of value and can hinge on spending AP in just the right way Playing against BZ, and against-against BZ Box Strats Champs placed on corners of 3x3, can only hit any two at a time, good when deck needs to stay bunched for value but also wants to minimize damage; countered by taking out a corner to bomb the remainder, taking the best two of however many available, or not using BZ Wide Dispersal Often a counter to stagflation, units spread so that BZ can only hit one, maybe two at a time; countered by keeping champs on the board and forcing key engagements Various Gamestates SDZ Stagflation Huge growth, very few champs on board, no way to make use of growth No-Growth Neutral Even or slightly minus on board, but no growth after long fight because of no Lord/death/Harvest triggers A Healthy Lategame Core of units occupying fringe of SDZ, pressing out, about 10 or 15 growth depending on map; raw growth becomes less important at 20 Sacrificed Mid Early-mid game standoff, neutral on board presence, worms on edge of SDZ, but the opponent has mid-font; result of a conscious sacrifice to preserve SDZ growth options Strategic Response To Rush Keep champs on the board, with safe SDZ growth as a priority; be careful with board presence to avoid stagflation To Build Up Identify major threats, prevent them from establishing, leverage the rest of worms’ lategame to take over; deploy carefully during engagement periods to avoid stagflation To Superchamps Worry less about SDZ, use worms’ various tools to dismantle the specific problem, bust out specific counters To Hordes Hang back, farm the little guys for SDZ, and then convert that SDZ into hyper-efficient BZ bombs; crutch on those to close out the game
This is the old OP (I want to replace the first page with better stuff): After the patch, worms are in a good(?) place. It's really hard to tell. I feel like I'm learning them all over again. Their average champ cost has, unfortunately, skyrocketed. To give you an idea of how much of a mess my current experiments are: View attachment 2668 I'm trying out Soul Corruption and Spell Trap. Yes, that's 2x Carrion Colossus. One of the Polluted Martyr's has Propagate. This thing is a mess, I'm a mess, please help. Hex 3 combined with the prior change to Aura 2 on the Fanta Creeper means I've dropped to 1, and that one with Commander -- for the Carrionlings of course. The Dusks have a mix of Distract, Multi, Speed, and Shadestrike. Putrids are still split among Scour, Aura, Creeping Harvest, and Consume, and I'm no longer deluding myself by saying that's a strategic choice; in the context of all this other stuff, I have no clue. Spell Trap theoretically lets me threaten opposing shrines after giant standoffs, which are rare, but I really don't know how else to handle stuff like Foul Rite or any other deck intent on building raw HP at a reasonable rate. Worms can do some fun stuff, but sustained damage is not that. Soul Corruption works on the same lines, intended to blow up factions like SP, KF, and FW that often can't cleanse opposing units. I haven't even put in a game with it yet. Maybe it's terrible? Anyway, this is what I'm parading around ranked right now. This deck is the in-bred idiot son of long experience with worms and a love of bad runes. Rotmaw at 66-70 sort of stinks, though. Still need to figure out how to work around that, as it leaves worms without a BnB melee outside of Blood Fiend, who's awesome, but also an oddball. Worms have a lot of trouble doing anything if they can't win off of the value from their SDZ shenanigans. It makes perfect sense, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but because of how they actually acquire that value, they fall prey to unexpected counters, such as Deafening Aura. Post any experiences on input. OLD STUFF View attachment 2639 So there you go, I'm trying to get worms to work again. I really need to stop trusting my instincts when it comes to changes -- they're sort of alright? They went through a bunch of changes that hurt, but fortunately, Putrid Creeper got buffed, and that's all the theme needs. Essentially, this list collapses down to 3 runes: Putrid Creeper, Bile Zombie, and Polluted Martyr. Here are my brief opinions on all the includes, some new tech, and a summary of how the deck works. Champs Putrid Creeper -- She accounts for the vast majority of the SDZ expansion, and holds down the front lines. I'm running 1 with Creepering Harvest, and 1 with Consume. Both have Aura 3, because it now can trigger SDZ growth on kill with Worm Lord. Consume allows one of the units to stick around, beef up, and supply the Worm Lord bonus in combat, while Creeping Harvest gives incredible growth, but at the cost of no healing. I deploy a Putrid Creeper just about any time I have the nora, even if one of them is already on the field. It makes for the absolute core of the deck. Bile Zombie -- Harsher triggering, lower damage, an extra sandbag of HP. I'll be honest, no matter how trash this rune gets, I will always try to play it. In the majority of games I've played with worms so far, this rune wins the game virtually on its own; you build SDZ, get pushed back, and then drop 2x Bile Zombies to kill the entire opposing line. That particular play still kicks butt. It has a 3 turn CD, and costs 42 nora to deal 26 damage. It can be tough to grow the zone consistently, and you need to be right in their face, but damn, that raw value keeps this deck viable. (The dirty truth is that worms have few in-house ways to actually capitalize on their expanded SDZ in the face of opposing melee. This is that way.) Polluted Martyr -- A less explosive, more consistent version of Bile Zombie. If you play FW, you should know what this rune does. Now it does that all the time, rather than just when your opponent decides to stop outside their font zone. Blinking Creeper -- It has Detection. Sometimes you want ranged damage or CC. Otherwise, it's expensive, squishy, and awkward. Not the premier Lord by any stretch. I run Vengeful to keep costs down -- he's really shot up in recent patches -- but maybe I'll experiment with Dread or something. This unit begins a trend that holds for most of the remaining worms: it's marginally better than the other non-theme options by benefit of its conditional synergy. Blood Fiend -- He's cheap, he's fast, he hits hard, and he's a good Repurpose target (I'll get to that). He gets rolled over by Distract and SPD-reducing effects, and suffers on larger maps or in prolonged engagements. When he works -- shooting into the opposing line and going down swinging -- he works great. He is also one of my favorite runes in the game, so the 2x spot is guaranteed. Losing deploy->Exert->attack really sucks though. Really. The Exertion nerf may have hurt him more than any other rune outside of Execution Order. Bloodworm -- It's alright? I still have no idea on his upgrades. Putrid Creeper, Blood Fiend, usually Rotmaw, and spells take precedence in any normal situation (read: any in which you can't obviously abuse Martyr or BZ). He brings some killing power to the table, and fits into a vein of suicide melee in worms. Eh. He's better than Necrosis Boneshredder, I guess? Whatever. He's charming trash. Broken Bones -- He does what Carrionling and the cheaper Rotmaw used to do, which is run for side fonts to secure late-game if the SDZ ever gets that huge. Also, he makes for cheap Putrid food. With Rabid he also stops healing. He, in an incredibly suitable fashion, fills a lot of little holes. I like him. Mindthief Creeper -- Way worse now! With Initiative, he wants to get outside of the SDZ, but has no way to increase it (barring tech tech). He can Paralyze people to do some CC maybe? He can harass with Stealth? In truth, Mindthief Creeper is just Putrid Creeper's Chinese restaurant, complete with delivery. Phantasmal Creeper -- One of the best worms outside of Putrid, and not a bad option to put inside Putrid, Phantasmal Creeper got tapped a bit by losing Aura 3, and that basic attacks feels way worse now that Lord triggers off of any kill. Whatever the case, it's an in-theme Ethereal Soldier that can help clinch games against a variety of opposing factions. Non-Champs Note: This is a basic support set of runes. As the deck evolves, these will change. DR/Altar -- This was an important combo to earlier worms lists, and now it doesn't sound so crazy! It's good. This does what people know it does. Doom -- It takes out big scary dudes I can't engage. Great against ranged heroes. Without Absorb Magic or Ancient's Protection, this feels much less spicy, but it's a basic catch-all. Essence Drain -- This helps kill things. An absolute stunner in combination with Blood Fiend; together, they can rip up about 50 HP in a single turn, for cheap at that. This spell, along with DR/Altar, can help make the worms early game terrifying, but you do need to get lucky. Outside of that, more killing power. Good. I hate champions. Speaking of... Festering Wounds -- Great now that it can't hurt your own units. Because worms really want to get that SDZ growth and do super abusive things with it, the idle cruelty of Festering Wounds isn't enough for a 2x, at least right now. That nora can go elsewhere. Still, it locks out healing and puts the hurt on any opposing deck attempting to swarm the field. The extra damage can help finish off opposing units. Mobilization -- I have a habit of dropping Mobi from decks, but it feels especially good here. I'm not going to use the next 20,000 words talking about all the uses and nuances of this spell, but here are a couple important, BG-specific considerations: extra AP on Blood Fiend when he's low on life, extra AP to move around a Bile, extra AP to shuffle around or multi-attack with a split Broken Bones, and extra AP on Putrid Creeper to grab globes or eat things. Repurpose -- I'll go into why this spell is especially useful for worms in the tech section, but in brief here, this spell helps with SDZ growth, and combos with Blood Fiend. Worms can sometimes look like a super-champ deck if a Putrid Creeper gets going, and this can help in that regard. I don't use this all willy-nilly, but it can do some cool stuff. Banner -- It's a banner. Tomb -- It still generates nora, applies some light pressure, and sets up Festering Wounds without committing to Tome. A super-safe include that does what it says on the box. Tome -- This one probably needs a bit more justification, considering that no runes in this BG damage the shrine (outside of the errant Bile Zombie). Here's my thinking: worms do well in the early game if they get good draws, so scrying matters. Scry a lot. This helps counteract that. Additionally, worms hate to transfigure, more than perhaps any other theme, faction, or BG ever made. If the opponent forces a trans, that can be game in and of itself. Therefore, Tome can help stave off incidental shrine damage or a redoubled rush, and remove the need to transfigure. It also works as a Perseverance counter, if Putrid isn't around. I love this rune, I think it's good, I wish there was more reason to run it in worms, but I think it has reason enough right now. Grim Well -- Great lock down and control. With expanded SDZ, you can sometimes deploy this in odd or unexpected places for additional advantage. Works well with Blood Fiend. I've run 2 in the past, and may again in the future. Bone Circle Staff -- Anti-swarm, mainly, although it blows up any meaty summons. Other than that, I rarely use it, but it can sometimes supply a bunch of additional HP if you find the right opening. Tech Forcing Death -- So the new big thing for worms is dying inside their SDZ. This is awkward and clunky, but it's possible to grease the wheels a bit. Two great ways to make this happen are Consume on Putrid Creeper and Repurpose. Whenever possible, I try to retreat weakened worms back into the SDZ to get eaten or grafted; so while the new version of Necrosis is mechanically clunky, it at least encourages some sense of solidarity with the home base. I'll add more if I get around to it. People should try out worms. They're mostly cheap, and I can't be the only one who wants to evacuate their brains with a small projectile every time I observe a FW game and see the same skeletons list once again.
I tried them after the patch worm is a really solid theme i use bile zonbie+gore explosion for 32 dmg for BZ plus the surge with soul bane and the new relic is amazing.
