Please remove or grant access to runes that simply can't be acquired

I'd post more about the topic, but considering the past 2 pages have taken a turn for the worst and my first post was glazed over, this is a pointless thread for anybody to be posting in.

End your opinions, suggest solutions, find a middle ground.

 

So in your example, Ryv the Ruthless is a good rune, it is functionally different than Ruthless Netmaster because an upgrade has been swapped with a base ability, but isn't so different that it is vastly superior to the Ruthless Netmaster, which is easily obtainable.

 

That is a good example of doing collectability right. Collectors, for the sake of collection, do not care about power level, only that the thing they are collecting has value. Magic has proven that expensive cards can be reprinted without destroying the value of older versions. I would like to see some more promo style versions of runes like magic does it. Collectors enjoy them because they will have value, and other players who don't care too much will still want them to pimp out their decks.

Having interesting effects be unobtainable for no other reason than "because" just looks shoddy.

I don't actually care for fan faire, harbingers, doom balls just as I don't really care about anything on Magic's reserved list. However, I support allowing people to obtain what they want to in a reasonable way (i.e. not having to trade an arm and a leg for something because it has an artificially high value).

 

Yes, that is a good example. And brodudeman summed it up nicely. Collecting is fun but it should not break the game. I would like to see more collectable runes and I would also like to see a very balanced game that anyone can play without collecting all the hard to get stuff.

 

The destruction of the collect ability of PoxNora was one of the biggest punches in the gut by SoE that caused me take a break. I have wanted to come back ever since...

As a new player I remember thinking that I would NEVER be able to get my hands on a Thorn Collection. I vividly remember the day I was finally able to trade for a polymorph so that I could craft my TC, excitement doesn't begin to describe my emotion. Hunting and hunting to finally get various other runes was equally as fun and satisfying.

Seeing that same Thorn Collection then just put in a "Theme Deck" was a slap in my collecting achievement face.

Saying that...I know players needed that rune. I wanted people to have rare runes. I personally gave Fan Faires away for doing little more than writing Players Guides here in the forums because I wanted players to have them and I figured out how to get my hands on a few (11 at the time.)

Knowing that players need the usable runes, I love the rerelease alternate art idea...like the Avenging Angel. Even with that, I get a weird joy deploying my black beauty when it is fundamentally no better than the white. I look for opportunities to use my alternate art cards whenever I can, because as a collector, that for me is fun.

Spells like TC, Bullseye and Fan Faire are tricky though. Here lies a bit of my issue, I do not get the same satisfaction using my alternate art version of Clarvoyance as I do an alternate art Champ. Because there is zero difference. It's vain and stupid I know, but as a collector one of the joys is people KNOWING I'm using a hard to get copy of the rune. So to satisfy the collector in me I would love to see alternate art and alternate in game effects, not permanent effects but casting effects, it could be a short animation, a sound difference, something in game to distinguish it and satisfy my vain collectors brain.

Had this been done w/ TC, and in the theme deck contained a TC w/ alternate art and a slightly different animation when casting, I would have been as happy as could be. Players would get their utility and I got to keep my "collectors status" vanity.

Collectors spend far more $ than casual players, but casual players create the environment that spurs collectors to do so and for casual players to stick around they need to feel they can play casually and compete.

 

Love that post, Malosi, says everything I'd say if I weren't way too lazy.

 

Indeed, very well said.

 

Malosi made the best point in this entire thread!

 

Yes, and make all runes common.

 

Slighting a few old collectors is far better than slighting a lot of the potentiall new players.
No basic rune should be unavailable in any shape or form as far as i am concerned. Alternate art/sepia tone is a perfectly viable way to differentiate "The al mighty super collectors who had the runes before they where cool" from the new rabble

Personally i have no issues with new players getting acces to Haunting Spirit, Boghopper Zombies etc. It will not diminish my playing value of those runes.
The only ones getting hurt when runes become more accesiable is the tradevultures. I can live with that!

 

Nobody has to be slighted. This whole thread is predicated on this idea that someone needs to lose -- if you can't get your hands on Fan Faire, then something unfair has happened and veterans/collectors need to take a hit to make things right.

It's begging a question, and I don't agree: there is nothing unfair about veteran players having special runes that new players can't get. To label rewards for loyalty, effort, money, and time spent as an "unfair advantage" essentially disregards an entire concept of the game, which is to strive toward greatness and to build an impressive collection of units. You can argue that isn't what PoxNora is about, but that would be your opinion; it is and has always been, since launch, a collection-driven game.

Malosi nailed it: you don't have to slap anyone in the face if you are careful, considerate, and just. The premise of this thread, however, is none of the above. It is selfish and rooted in envy. Period.

 

No, it is not. You are someone who sees greed in every action and hates anything that could mean any harm to your "values". You can't look further than your percieved sanctitiy of your "unique" property, and you are enraged when someone gets an equivalent without the work you did for it.

Guess what? Nobody cares. There is absolutely no reason to do something the hard way if the easy way is much more reasonable, and moreso if even the hard way is artificially blocked. There is nothing unfair about giving everyone the same chance to aquire something, and it is selfish to wish to keep everything for yourself and yourself alone.

 

Wow. There's what's wrong with our world, folks. "I don't care if you paid for it with money you worked hard to earn; I don't care if you put time in; I don't care about what you deserve! Everyone must be equal."

I will repeat myself, again: there is a way to compromise so that nobody feels slighted. Furthermore, none of the runes in question are gamebreakers. Additionally, YES, I do get upset when someone saunters in with his hands out, crying because someone has something he doesn't have or can't get, when he has done NOTHING to deserve or earn that item -- but I get even more upset when everyone joins in and pities that person and says, 'yeah, you're right, it really is so sad! Something must be done immediately!'

Come off it. Y'all are acting like me having Fan Faire makes me some kind of wicked miser living in a mansion on top of a cliff overlooking a shanty town. It's &%@*king Fan Faire, not the cure for AIDS.

 

This discussion is not about Fan Faire, this discussion is about your morally and logically questionable approach to handling this situation.

You misunderstand one important thing: They did nothing to deserve rare runes less than you. Fan Faire was given out at the event, so what? No European besides really rich guys had any chance to attend. Many US citizens didn't have a chance either because the US is big. It makes no sense to act as if a rune which take snothing but a click to create had some kind of inherent value only soneone who "worked" for it or "deserved" it should get. You do not deserve Fan Faire more than anyone else.

That said, I also understand collectors, and in a sense I am one myself. I am very proud of my Isran and won't trade it away; it will always remind me of my success in a tournament. But it is only a cosmetic matter. Everyone else can aquire Ironfist Inquisitors and have the same stats and same abilities as my Isran, so nobody really needs it. Nobody, however, can aquire the gameplay provided by Fan Faire, because there is no available and unavailable version, but only an unavailable one.

TL;DR: I don't oppose collections or collectors, I oppose self-righteous collectors that think they "deserve" more than others.

 

Splitting hairs? There is absolutely no impetus to collect something if others can collect it as easily or -- in your vision -- even more easily. Why did I spend cash to buy a Winter's Breath pack, in which I got Fain Faire? Others had the ability to purchase the packs, and others did -- and many have Fan Faire, if they were of a mind to get one at that time -- or if they went to a convention, or if they traded for it...

Had someone asked, "is it fair that some people just got Fain Faire" at that time, nobody would have said, "Of course not! It is very unfair that some players have Fan Faire," because it was still available and anyone could buy the pack or trade for it if they really wanted it. Then, the promotion ended. The opportunity ended.

So, yes. I do deserve to have Fan Faire more than player X, Y, or Z, because I got it when it was gettable. ME. I did. If you did, too, then good on ya, mate. I don't resent anyone for what they have -- I resent people who resent me for what I have.

That is how collecting works. You seize opportunities and you are rewarded with something special or unique. You call me self-righteous because I don't want a collection I have worked on for 4 years to suddenly become easily obtainable in some effort to "be fair?" I can't reconcile that. Sorry.

 

Oddly enough the way the system is now IS THE EASY and REASONABLE WAY. Here is how I got my hands on a lot of the "unobtainable" runes...I spent money.

I didn't try and rally to change the system. I just spent money. I opened my wallet bought lots of boxes got lots of trade fodder and traded. I traded with others and with fan sites, but all my money was spent on boxes to support the game I enjoy. If I wanted something I gave profit in my trade for the person offering it, I didn't whine about it and call them names, they had, I wanted, I made it a win win.

Now I recognize that not everyone can/will drop $40-$60 an expansion to build up trade fodder. But that is what I did, until I had all things KF, and it was VERY EASY. (I'm not rich, I just made this a "priority", most people spend that at gas stations on snacks/energy drinks every 1-2 weeks and don't realize it, coming up w/ that once an expansion is not hard even a teen could do it mowing one lawn a week if they wanted it bad enough.)

Trying to get a business to change its business model in a fair way that remains profitable, and doesn't chase old collectors away in favor of new customers is THE HARD WAY...Hard because it must be that any change should be a Win for new players, a Win for old collectors, and a Win for the company. Are there solutions, absolutely but they will never be found when any customer only looks at their wants and only cares that they Win.

The increased difficulty is because SoE listened to those that wanted to do it the SELFISH way and made it a Win for them, and a Win for new customers, and a slap in the face to old collectors...thus a lot of old collectors left taking other hard to obtain runes with them, or selling them off to stores/fan sights who of course want a profit. This decreases the availability even further. Now new players didn't have as many opponents and their new shineys weren't as cool and many of them left...Selfishness made it easy early, but always makes it harder in the long run.

Buying lots of boxes to get lots of trade fodder, and offering a profit to those who have and are willing to trade still remains the easiest way to get the rare runes...but I recognize that it is not sustainable for a game such as this...which is why I am all for alt art/alt effect new versions of the collectable stuff. Give the utility, keep the collect ability.

 

Brilliant point, Malosi. You keep nailing it.

What this thread is proposing -- pandering to new players by neglecting veterans and collectors -- SOE already did that, and it failed. Irrefutably so. SOE even created a horde of common/uncommon/rare auto-include juggernauts so that new players could wield gratifying power right out of the gates. SOE did so much to try and pander to new players by giving them things, that they forgot the most important rule of business: You cannot grow a business by alienating your customers -- any of them. Period.

All this scolding of long-time, loyal, paying players? It's nothing short of silly and self-serving.

 

Wait, you are upset that they made easy-to-obtain runes viable? Really not seeing your logic on that one. Are you arguing this game should have rarity=power to coddle the balls of entitle internet people?

"You cannot grow a business by alienating your customers -- any of them." Because it is completely possible to please everyone equally always, right?

 

When the printing press was invented the price of books crashed. The middle class could suddenly afford printed goods, and the upper class was terrified. Their privilege! Their knowledge! Suddenly any chump could read!

You sound like that. These runes are digital goods and any price for them is completely arbitrary. The elecrticity and time needed to create a million of them amounts to a fraction of a cent. Crying about "too much avaiability" is so godawfully silly to my ears I can hardly describe it. Why do you oppose others getting what they want? Why do you need to measure your digital **** by having something arbitrary only defined by someone else not having it?

You say you "deserve" those runes because you took the opportunity to get them. Guess what? If the Owls decided to lower the price of Fan Faire to 1 gold right now I could buy it, and I would "deserve" it just as much as you did. I bought it for the price the seller put up. You don't want others to have access to part of the game? Thats incredibly selfish. You try to lobby against giving other people access to a part of the game, so that your own investment holds more imaginary value; you fight others so that you can "have" more.

Somehow you don't notice your cognitive dissonance. You say SOE would have been pandering new players by giving them powerful commons, but you overlook that powerful exotics instead, aside of being terrible design and commerical suicide, means pandering to those people that are willing to waste great amounts of money on digital runes with imaginary value. You say you should not alienate any of your customers, while advocating the alientation of almost everyone just so you can have your will. You want the printing press to go away, only you should have a book, and everyone who wants one should become rich or ********.

 

So allorbase you are saying you are against a uncommon rune that does the same thing fan faire does, but has a different rune art and animation?

In my opinion the whole aria, pyro, valassa thing was handled the right way. Runes for collectors and runes for people who just want the mechanic on the battlefield.

How is this even an issue?