Never play on PS4/PS3/Ps5

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anotherblackman, Apr 27, 2021.

  1. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    Stupid devs can’t even make a game that works. No wonder the ranking is so low in The Sony store.

    Literally tried to operate the “rune dock and my abilities and guess what it told me.

    No.

    so I lost to some mediocre player because I couldn’t move any of my units.
    Can we talk about how great this game is some more? I’m still trying to believe the Yesmen.

    and yes this is constructive feedback. Don’t delete this cause if you do you are only ensuring you are hiding the problem, which let’s be honest, That the whole idea of this game at this point.

     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
  2. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    We've known that the PSX client was crap since day 1, and have done everything we can to migrate players away from it in favor of the Steam client (not that that's much better, but still). Yeah, Sony basically wrung this game dry and left it to die, that's old news.
     
  3. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Obvious cash grab from devs to be fair. They agreed to unfavorable contract terms from the start.
     
  4. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    I honestly don't know what they were thinking

    Devs made nothing but poor decisions heck anyone remember void rim of course not because they botch it like everything they touch
     
  5. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    They were thinking about how much they probably all hate each other, and how to get as much cash before BTFO pox.


    It's pretty funny to play pox on ps vita, I still do it for the luls occasionally.
     
  6. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Don't forget that pox accounts and ps4 accounts were never going to be able to be synced. Which really meant that the ps4 pox was never going to be anything more than a cash grab, and also signaled that the devs were trying to get out. Honestly whole thing was low effort. What's funny is im pretty sure fortnite accounts are cross compatibile now anyways.

    What's crazy to me is that this game could actually generate revenue if Gordon Ramsey came in and fixed the kitchen. It has potential to be really fun and popular imo, always had.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  7. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Plox nora etc were after the Sony deal iirc. I was referring to the cash out vibe on Dogs part simply because of the lack of care put into the patches, and also the lack of involvement with dev teams playing pox towards later years(sok basically played as many games as Beth when he was developing in ~2015). If DOG got screwed over by Sony, it was honestly more their own fault I would presume, simply for the lack of effort I percieved on their end around that time anyways.

    But I don't really know, it's obvious that there's plenty of passionate and skilled players who could drive this game to greener pastures given the chance/ motivation.
     
  8. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Lol Tyler1 is awesome ngl

    At least play on pc tho. Not even devs defend the ps4 version. That being said, this game is a dice rolling simulator because ppl want to be able to make sick plays with their 4-8 range sentinel units.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  9. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I always wonder what this game could be of the effort put into the PS release was spent elsewhere.
     
  10. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    That’s easy. Me vs you on Lost city

    FF IS Vs FF UD

    sadly that’s not the “vision” people had when they thought of poxnora for some reason.
     
  11. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    It’s arguable, cool beans, like anyone cares about “back then” now. That’s what my return has honestly showed me. There is no hope for this game anymore because the glory days are seen as that , the past. They don’t want a game where you can have fun WATCHING JAB LOSE. They want a game they can act like they are good at cause no one smart would touch it.

    I don’t care about FF or split deck eras.

    that isnt what I was getting at some Bull about FF being better than Split.

    me and Badge played split decks. badge if I recall dabbled tons more in it, however I do recall him being , like Dagdapede with SL, being a premier UD deck builder. He didn’t need meta, or any of the best Ud runes. All he needed was some deep elf priestesses, some Nora, a demon shield or 2 and for you to play right into his strategies.

    Back then, the game didn’t punish you for trying to create your own deck, unlike how it currently does, due to as Badge said, the game wasting the precious time and resources on complete utter and pointless efforts, THAT WE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARENT COMPLETE TOOLS, knew was a stupid idea to even be attempted.

    they were jumping through fire hoops in gasoline shorts when all we wanted was them to burn some rice paper off the game via a nerf yo some of the complex Crazy runes, and rune interactions. Instead they took us back to release set of power, yet did it with complete disregard of anyone.

    that is what I’m acknowledging, the time line where Thanos didn’t snap.
     
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  12. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I don't think balance arguments generally are hugely relevant. I've always found balance to be impressively good, though it is obviously not perfect all the time. When players get angry about balance, i think it's usually that they are not really engaged with the game anyway which is effecting their playing, and causing them to lose and then try to externalise the blame for that loss on 'balance'. When you are really engaged then strong runes and bad matchups are a challenge to overcome, not a reason for a whinge fest.

    And I generally like split decks, and think they provide needed variety to games.

    What I meant was that a lot of resources was put into the PS release which ultimately worsened the PC client, if those had been spent on simply creating a polished PC game that looked pretty and up to date... then me might be in a better position now. Not that I'm blaming anyone, Sony had plans that didn't work out - it happens

    I also think that while the figures for Maljara release were good in terms of attracting new players, that era - as well as having lots of money thrown at it - set in some damaging power and complexity creep. So while it was definitely fun in the short term, it did have a long term cost that prevented the game from growing as it could have. It was the time after that influx of crazy strong 20 ability champs that saw declining player numbers as newbies were turned off by the knowledge barrier to entry.

    So, acknowledging that it's easy to be wise with hindsight, if placing blame I tend to look to the mentality of the CorpsE era.
     
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  13. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I actually 200% agree with rune value argument. People who can't afford every rune in game are at a significant disadvantage. It's the main reason I am so adamant about the skeleton nerfs, and why I thought they were unfair; there were still tier 0 bgs that were out there, so why nerf skeletons at all? Nerf things in order of power level?

    I don't mind splits, so long as FF is encouraged- it's undeniable having twice the rune pool size is an obvious advantage, and needs to be balanced with incentives to play ff (heros, loyalty etc).

    Honestly it's kind of funny watching the game be torn apart from the (mostly) terrible, elitist community that everyone seems to strive to uphold. It mirrors real world events, and the collapse of western society. This genuinely is one of the worst states of pox I've ever seen.
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    One thing to keep in mind is that during that era, the Pox gameplay team was the largest it had ever been.

    3 designers (Corpse, Rev, and myself) and 2 gameplay engineers, plus in-house QA and artists.

    With so many resources, we were able to go quite deep and do a lot more in terms of design complexity and new ideas. Maljaran had a design bible with walls and walls of text and art that you guys never saw. There's a reason why those expansions felt so complete and polished - we had the time and resources to do that.

    SOE eventually pulled me off to make Facebook games (yes, it's as dumb as it sounds) because I have economics/analytics background and that's what you need to make those types of games, but even then I was still 50% on PoxNora because you really don't need a fulltime designer to those Facebook games.

    Contrast it to the later SOE days, after SOE shuttered 1/3rd of their workforce when it was just me and 1.5 programmers and you can see how things would play out differently in terms of our ability to do more interesting things, QA/fix bugs, etc. While I do think streamlining and templating abilities makes sense from an accessibility perspective, admittedly part of the reason for that was also to make it easier to work on without strong engineering support.

    (Which leads to another thing, without all the effort Gedden put in to make "POXML," Pox's proprietary scripting language, Pox probably doesn't survive the post lay-off SOE era since part of the reason we were able to keep going was that this POXML made it relatively easy to actually make content, as long as it didn't stray too far from existing stuff.)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Honestly, you just do what you gotta do when running a business. By this point in Pox's life cycle, with how much resources had been thrown at it, it made more business sense to focus on other things.

    I wasn't really involved in Neon, but I did most of the work on Huntsman outside of programming and art and it kept the studio running. Same with the space game and the SOE PS4 deal - without those things, the studio shuts down earlier and Pox goes "dark" even sooner with the final 3 or 4 expansions never launching.

    This is why I leaned heavily on my player design group for help in making the final few expansions: while that's always been my style, I honestly couldn't do it all myself and we even hired a player to work on it with me as well.

    We really tried to support Pox for as long as possible and did everything we could in that regard. Heck, even when DOG finally stopped releasing updates to Pox, there was still an expansion in the works - there's art and everything.

    ~

    Sidenote: Taking Pox back from SOE was more of an attempt at preserving Pox than anything - if DOG hadn't, SOE was just gonna shut it down. None of us would be here talking about it today. It took a lot of effort and time to get it back and I think some people need to realize how little sense it really made to do it from a financial point of view (and how little sense it makes for them to be helping with any updates at all at this point, which they are doing).
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Oh certainly there are many business decisions that could have been made differently, but there were also restrictions (for example, SOE lawyers didn't even like the single rune store so that got shuttered).

    Specifically for the business decision quote, I was referring to the fact that when DOG got Pox back from SOE, there wasn't really much money to be made, it was more about preserving the legacy instead of letting SOE just sunset the product.

    ~

    Sidenote:
    Honestly, it's very difficult to change the trajectory of a product - companies with far greater resources have tried to do things like that and it's largely a crapshoot. Sometimes you get Fortnite out of it, but that's an exception. This is why with the data driven way games are done now on mobile, the strategy is often to make games fast and see where the early data says, then abandon the ones that don't pan out, rather than focusing on a single idea to try and make it work. From a purely financial return point of view, it's better to try a lot different things, then only put real effort behind the ones that show promise - because once a product is out there in the wild, the numbers can be often very hard to move.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, we were all there together until the SOE layoffs, that's when I went to TinyCo, Rev went to Petroglyph, and Corpse stayed with SOE - later he'd go elsewhere, and I came back to SOE to take over PoxNora (that was the me and 1 programmer era).
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    The language existed for most of Pox's lifetime actually, but more and more focus was put on post SOE-layoffs. When Corpse, Rev and I were all working on it, we didn't touch it very much, but later when it was just me, I was doing a lot of the easier abilities myself.
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Those abilities still exist and has "code" in the form of the POXML. In terms of the DB reference, I assume they weren't deleted but just not assigned to anything.
     
  20. Bushido

    Bushido Devotee of the Blood Owl

    what language is POXML written in? Java?
     

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