Answer or Die

So I'm mainly looking at Stealth and Equipment. It's pretty well accepted practice that you have to run at least something for detection and something to kill equipment or you risk being totally screwed by stealth or an equipment. However this leads to stealth based bgs being horrendously inviable and has resulted in equipment needing to be extremely undercosted and powerful to be at all viable (basically they need to be worth it in the turn that you play it). Additionally these elements have contributed to our ever mounting complexity creep because the designers have felt (correctly) the need to put these kinds of answers into new themes or onto old ones so they can function properly.

The end result of this is that one strategy is unviable and one of the run categories is completely unbalanced against the others because we decided that kill spells were okay for equipment. In almost every other case Pox Nora has been about soft answers to problems, counters that function in other ways and simply make the thing they answer less effective rather than completely nullifying it. I don't know about you guys but I always feel really annoyed every time I have to set aside 2-4 slots in my BG because I know I'll need some of these hard answers because there's no good alternative.

 

I wouldn't say that a stealth BG is not viable, most decks I've seen only have enough detection to handle a champ or two, not a BG focused around it.

 

who are you, my mother

 

There there, it will be alright son.

 

Skeezicks play without detection, FS plays without cleanse, I played a lot without shatter.
Stealth bgs are viable, if you cannot kill a couple of utility champions that will screw you over it's not a "hard counter" fault.

 

I second this. I have a ran a Stealth bg before and it worked nice. I hated going against Detect champs but if you focus them they will more than likeley have no other detect champs to use until theybhave gone off cooldown.

A good Stealth Bg is not all stealth champ reliant. You have to have the element of surprise. I couldt get into more detail but walls of texts suck lol.

 

My problem is less how it might hurt a stealth champion and more how gimmicky it feels every time I have to allocate a slot that has absolutely nothing to do with my strategy. Additionally I notice that none of the responses have anything to do with equipment. (Except GabrielQ's a little bit)

 

Its absolutely viable and a PAIN to play against.

Unless you are IS.

 

i choose death

 

You don't "have" to have a counter but it is recommended to have it so that its easier to deal with. If you don't run counters then you have more slots for your bg but you have weakness. Choose the option that suits you best.

As far as stealth equipment goes there are very little options the last I knew. Please correct me if I am wrong. I ran a split BG with KF/UD Ash stealth bg and ran Cloak of Knives and some stealth spells. Darkmarsh Helmet is in FS and it grants stealth and assassinate last I knew. I can't think off the top of my head what other equips there are that synergize with stealth champs. I only just came after a big break so hopefully some one can help me on this.

 

His mention of equipment was separate from stealth. He is saying that there are so many equipment counters out there, that equipment started being costed for one round of use instead of multiple. That has lead to the need to have equipment counters in any deck since the more expensive equipment has become very powerful for the cost.

 

Stealth has always been on the chopping block with players.

I for one, think stealth is one of the BEST things in this game. It is a mechanic that promotes strategy, both offensively and defensively. I think it gets a lot of attention.. because, well, it is just hard to play against at times. What other ability makes you need to think and anticipate your opponent more?

It's not a lost game if you do not have detection. A stealthed opponent is only effective once it reacts and becomes unstealthed (with some exceptions) - wait, anticipate and be prepared to react. Calculate where the champion will be and spam the area with an AOE. Go on the offense so that the stealth deck does not take control of the game.

I don't think that being "required" to take detection is a bad thing anyway. It helps to diversify. What would you take instead? A 2nd meta rune beater/tank? Detection sometime forces you to consider otherwise, unconsidered champions. That is GOOD for the game. Mechanics like this should be embraced.

As far as equipment, I'm not sure what can be done there. I can't think of a single piece of equipment that makes a character become instantly undefeatable if you balance your BG properly from the start.

 

Oh I see... apologies for my misunderstanding.

 

Totem of the Fallen says Hai.

Angel of Nourishment says Hai

If you are against LEGS though then yeah. Your screwed.

 

Totem is not detection.

Angel is largely irrelevant.

Try playing without true detection or without spot cleanse for a while. It gets boring quickly.

 

I play without detection every game.

 

I does prevent your opponent from being stealthed for two rounds which is convenient.

 

It doesn't prevent stealth + assassinate in one turn. Yes, its not bad, but its not detection and doesn't do what detection does. Same thing with ping.