Bane Shift — best UD cleansing option.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by fogandsteel, May 19, 2017.

  1. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    A couple players (who ironically played UD) asked me in chat how come that my champion didn't take damage from scoured or some other negative condition.


    I think this rune is by far the best cleanse option in UD. Cheap, lasts for 6 turns, damages your opponent's units with Loss of Life, no need for another champion nearby or spending APs.

    PS. Do not nerf.
    Netherzen and Hierokliff like this.
  2. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    This a very good spell. I wish the harmless bauble would work like this. Harmless bauble used to be similar to this minus the cleane but it did it globally so a bit oped. When I saw this spell I was hoping Harmless Bauble would get this aspect back again. I see it working in reverse. Equipped champ gains the conditions of champs with in 5 spaces and looses 2 life per condition and can not be cleansed.
  3. MogaBait

    MogaBait I need me some PIE!

    I prefer Purging Flames cleanse since you can cleanse multiple champs on your first turn in which the condition is applied (which is by far the most important turn to be able to cleanse on). Stoker is great spot-cleanse for this reason, in addition to being a great dispell option, anti-heal option, and generally providing more meat on the board.

    Furthermore, spending nora on support/utility spells in UD often isn't a great option relative to offensive or champ control spells that preserve or continue to build-up your momentum. If you lose momentum playing UD then you've lost the game as other factions and themes scale better in the long-term and have higher ceilings. Of course, if the spell is working for you then by all means continue using it. An often overlooked aspect of deck building is the player's personal factor.
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  4. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    I have to laugh if people actually call bane shift a weak spot cleanse.

    A better version than soul reaver and it is hidden.
    fogandsteel likes this.
  5. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    If we are talking about momentum, you are loosing 1 or more turns to move Stoker, and you spend AP on cleansing instead of attacking. Plus with Bane Shift you do not take ANY damage from negative conditions at all. I had experience with Gekal, High One. Bane Shift saved me from getting 15 damage, then 10 damage, then 5 damage. (Actually, I had Fire-eater, so it was a bit less damage mitigation, but you get the idea.) And as a bonus — Loss of Life on enemy units. And it has an element of surprise. Say, they stunned your unit and expect it not being able to attack next turn. It's sneaky, like Dark Pact.

    Edit: ninja'd by DiCEM0nEY.
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  6. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Spot counters need across the board nora increases imo. With a few exceptions that is .
  7. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Huh, has bane shift always dealt damage or was that a change that was implemented when I was gone? Regardless, you've pointed out a really good spell to me, so I'm going to have to add it to my UD bg. Thanks.
    fogandsteel likes this.
  8. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    Listen to him lads :) its not often that I agree with someone on any UD topic but he nailed it
  9. MogaBait

    MogaBait I need me some PIE!

    I believe it used to cleanse the negative effect on target champion and then reapply the effect to the nearest opposing champion. I tried using it a few times and it was buggy and didn't seem to be WAI, which is why I think the recent change occurred. I may be wrong though, memory on this is hazy.
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, it was redesigned away from transferring conditions due to bugs.
  11. Regulate

    Regulate I need me some PIE!

    I'd laugh if anyone called bane shift a spot cleanse, at all. It's not.

    Cleansing storm is a spot cleanse, so is reaver. Cleansing mist is not, nor is baneshift, nor is cleanse on any champion.

    Shatter on a champion is not spot equipment removal, diamond mace and the spell 'shatter' are though.

    When people refer to something as 'spot' they are talking about the ability to directly affect the battle, when needed, with no preparation.

    Also, again fogandsteel, you are seeing a distorted view of the power of this spell as you only have 1 target to cleanse because you play a one dimensional deck where you put all your eggs in one basket. Yes, it's a good spell when timed properly, but it's much harder to use well in a non-gimmick deck.
  12. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    If it's cleansed at the end of each turn I don't see how it helps against a lot of the effects UD had been historically week against; stun, paralyse, metamorph, other disables etc. I don't think many factions bother with spot cleanse on DoTs, debuffs like sunder, sand spray and the like etc. Spot cleanse is most generally only valuable because without it in x situation x champion is dead the next turn. Cleansing mist does almost the same thing (id argue that it does since your champion is doing nothing on your opponents turn), however is in no way regarded a spot cleanse, and that thing is op. It's far more so than baneshift because of the surprise factor in an AoE st the start of your turn.

    Anyways I don't see how this is a spot cleanse, or helps with UDs cleanse problem.
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  13. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    Corrected it for you ;)
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  14. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    It cleanses at the end of each turn, not just at the end of your turn. So if an IS opponent stunned your champ with Hammer Strike, your champ will not be stunned on your turn and will be able to move and attack. (But you need to have it cast beforehand.) Moreover, there will be 5 Loss of Life damage to one opponent champ within 5 spaces.

    How does that not help? It helps plenty.

    PS. As far as terminology goes, I didn't say that it was a spot cleanse, only that it was the best US cleanse option.
  15. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    Just a shame you couldn't kill his avatar afterwards...
  16. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    If he were to hammer strike and then you baneshift it would do absolutely nothing except increase your defence by 2.
  17. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    I understand that. Just like with a Dark Pact, you have to cast it beforehand. Don't you have a feeling which if your champs is likely to be a target of some incapacitating spell or ability next turn or in the next couple of turns? The effects of both spells last for 6 turns, so you don't have to have a perfect prediction on the timing.

    Edit: Not sure where you got "increase your defence by 2".
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  18. Regulate

    Regulate I need me some PIE!

    Again, you run a deck with 1 scary threat - you know what's going to happen...

    Most people will be playing normal decks which have multiple similar strength champions potentially in several smaller engagements. So yeah, it is absolutely not easy to predict when something is coming down unless it's a champion ability already on the field (which aren't incredibly common)

    Card is playable, but it's not strong. Dark pact, similarly, is not great. Backfire and cancel magic are powerful effects because they give you "blanket" cover against spells, regardless of target or location.
  19. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    When you have several champs on the board, the one to be most likely targeted is either the one that is closest to your opponent's units, or the most probable target for one-rounding, or the one that creates the most inconvenience for him, for example, contesting a font — duh. After you've played a bunch of matches, it is NOT that diffucult to predict what your opponent is going to do. You and some other players said that my deck is predictable, but so are yours. Once you have your champs on the board, it's fairly clear what you are going to do next (provided you are familiar with that faction(s)' runes).

    And I am pointing out what good options are available in UD, not if other factions have better options.
  20. Fentum

    Fentum I need me some PIE!

    I find Acrid Smoke a better response to stun / etc. Stop the enemy taking advantage of the stunned champ.

    If it’s serious, there’s always Retribution!

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