Cactuar Crate - Ronin Edition

I don't get the whole Creep Master deal. "If your theme isn't at common, it isn't your theme." Seems like an unnecessary addition.

I've been against the changes because Worms for me have been about inevitability -- this is the one damn chance to play something besides mid-range, actually play some control in more than having UT in a deck -- and I think the changes gut that feature, groin to sternum.

 

Certainly would not, absolutely not. Worms would change enormously. One of the largest tensions in playing Worms is investing in the late-game through deployment choices versus using the superior support suite to survive the current board state.

Depends upon what you consider their playstyle. For how I play and think about Worms, it does: balance resources, survive, leverage the deployment zone in end-game. Plenty of people think about Pox differently though, and enjoy different things; certainly isn't the first environment in which I'm part of an understandably small and probably smartly-sidelined minority. MTG would probably be in worse financial straights if every set was Future Sight.

Would you think they could exist at all, in any capacity?

 

Yeah, I was just checking if you thought it could be done anywhere. Part of why I liked Worms was that they did have that, even if it's a risky design. It does make perfect sense that it's being changed, just a bummer.

I don't think anyone is playing to lose the early game unless you have some crazy strategy going, but Worms certainly aren't playing to win the early game, just play to live. Sometimes you do get 2x Bloodfiend with extended SDZ shenanigans on the draw into DR/Altar and can just clean up, but that's a rarity.

Yeah, that dynamic isn't going anywhere. So long as it provides a benefit for deploying sub-par champs rather than using spells, it's going to stay. The tension will be lighter after the changes, though, because deployment really doesn't matter, and spells and support runes can help pick up attack kills.

 

OK, first off avengers was pretty good.

Now for worms.

One thing I think is being overlooked is that SDZ is only beneficial in a few circumstances.
When do you deploy using the expanded zone and what do you deploy?

In the early game it acts as extra ap for your 2nd deploy.
Mid game it doesn't really come into play as most deploys are centered at the fonts not at the shrine zone, even if it is expanded by say 5. Your champs and deploy zone is already AT the font.

Late game you should have built up enough zone with the current bonus to start making tactical surprise deploys. You can't put your eggs in one basket because the creep player is often tight on nora but hi on deploy options.You have to put pressure in certain spots and basically play a two way attrition game. but attrition from a nora and position standpoint.

When playing creeps I could rack up a large zone but it becomes meaningless if I'm too far gone from a nora advantage.

With the change the late game won't be possible due to the net gain being + on basic attack kills.

There is also one main way to utterly obliterate the zone....
Make them transfigure. zone goes poof.

SDZ will be a hard concept to balance but is a truly delightful mechanic.

The current setup may not kill worms in all honesty as it gets rid of the restriction on non-anthro/worm deploys but it does relegate it to very limited uses which looks to be intended.

 

Basically no more deploys into combat unless its at your doorstep in which case you're losing the match anyway.
So it becomes a what's the point kind of ability for +5 nora tacked on.

 

On the flip side, more incentive to mass-drop Bile Zombie and Polluted Martyr if you do ever get any serious expansion. I hear that's a fun mechanic for the other side. (Also, if only basic attacks trigger the expansion, then bombing actually sucks.)

 

You'd bomb to soften them up

 

That 26 damage precision chunk.

 

It does open up more deck building but it puts the design of necrosis champs on a different path.

No longer do you want cheap champs to cycle through to build up those sweet sweet boom deploys you now want sturdy stick around tanks that pick off enemy units.

Things like carrionling or units without ANY basic attack or finishing power become blah.
I'm looking at you mindtheif creeper.

Also before when Necrosis was base on carrionlings (or default upgrade) any spawning ability like death spawn or propagate would effectively eat your zone alive since you wouldn't get the bonus from deploying them but they certainly eat it when they die and have necrosis.

That was a big reason why carrion colossus wasn't run and why Necrosis/creep changed.

 

hmm.... how best to describe it...

So based on the analogy +2 dmg I think it's a bad comparison because the SDZ is only useful once it hits a threshold.

For instance you would actually be handicapping yourself by deploying at your expanded shrine deployment zone through most of the battle.

To reflect that in the analogy you'd be deploying the champion with -X dmg and getting a damage boost later on in the game after you have deployed X of that champion.

While technically what you say is true to the letter mechanically I still believe the effect is different.

 

Oh, yeah, also, can we get Necrosis removed from base of any champion that doesn't drop directly from the rune dock? That seems like a big deal.

 

Carrionling I think is the only potential one and only because it's in upgrade.

I think the death spawns have upgrades still so it would mean he sucks in necrosis bgs again although that isn't anything new with that guy.

 

So Sok, what from the 'next patch' list is going to be included in the expansion?

 

What if the current necrosis remained but only worms could be deployed in the enlarged zone?

 

that does absolutely nothing except remove bile zombies from the bg.

 

Which is actually a huge nerf. Also a major bummer, because you can't do stuff like this:



The value.