Can we walk about Catharsis Bloom?

I think the Venn Diagram between what I think and what sokolov thinks is overlapping. I am going to the liquor store to see if inebriation cures me of this malady.

 

Why not just make it charge 2 nora per trigger and self destruct if the player doesn't have the nora?

 

I think a few better options would be (1) to give every faction a similar kind of relic that requires every player to learn deal with or (2) make a champ specific ability on a unique rune with fewer stats like Sok said above. For (2), give it a CD 8 but remains off if the rune is still in play. I just think that we have to stop changing every rune because it is hard to deal with but create balance by giving each faction the ability. (Of course, creating balance is completely elusive because someone will always complain about something being hard or too OP or whatever.)

 

Quite simply, that is a terrible idea.

If something is over the top its over the top regardless if one faction has it or all 8 factions have it.

The idea that something is innately balanced by the fact that all factions have it is absurd.

 

you mean you dont want a self replicating hive?!

 

What I might want and what is healthy for the game are at times to very different things.

 

- Yes its not the relic so much as a cross comparison of other relics with weaker effects. Santuary of hope, for example... and there are tons others. It is not shadowspawned, it is not 25 nora, it does not replicate itself, the impact is awful..and if the relic does it's intended job it for some reason takes 3 damage

- So Catharsis bloom needs a hit in 2 of these areas at least. Cost to 30, remove shadowspawn, remove replication, nerf healing effect. I imagine people would just elect to increase cost and nerf the healing a bit. But I like the idea of it killing itself for all the healing it does.

 

@MovnTarget The idea that something is balanced because its availability is ubiquitous is perfectly sound. It's practically the definition of balance. You can use 30 runes in FF X because when it was decided to move from 20 to 30, it affected everyone. Banners are auto-include in FF and often in splits, and no one really sees them as overpowered because everyone has access to them.

Your argument should be that that balance choice doesn't actually apply because they would be parallel at best, not the same. Variations would render some OP/UP in comparison to the others, invariably. That and the fact that despite Banners being almost a 'symbol' to the game, and even if some rune and rune interactions maydefine a release in the same vein, we don't want people running around with autos; making for a stale game where despite the large number of runes everyone knows exactly what everyone is running, and you can be that it's prototype of rune Y.

 

This needs a bump as bloom has still not been hit with a nerf and is easily the best rune in the game atm

 

I am not trolling anybody. I just disagree with your logic. You say balance comes by adjusting a rune that is OP. I say balance comes from something else. Fighting the bloom is not that big of a deal. It is not like KF is the best faction in the game because of it. Find balance in the game in another way.

 

Do you fully understand the meaning of overpowered and its implicit characteristics?
I say that's exactly right, I also agree that balance can also be introduced your way. These are not mutually exclusive, but one is definitely more ideal.

The 'make everything increasingly OP' is something Pox has suffered, and is still paying for. We've finally strayed where naught but ~5% of runes are even viable, that's where you tread within your view of 'balance.'

 

Yes, I understand OP. Pox has suffered in OP. I get that. The pendulum in Pox has swung too far to the OP said, Yes, I get it. But now we swinging the pendulum back to far to the other side where nothing is OP. Balance in the game is achieved more in a little OP than none. We are not going to achieve it scaling back the large OP rune set only to let the next OP rune set to emerge. Every person in here is looking for the rune set that works. Runes get changed. New combinations are discovered. New runes become the new meta. Then what, when this whole thing is done, do you get bored, do you request another change in meta, do you request a new rune release? Every new wave of change is only a preliminary step to the newest wave of the next OP rune coming behind it. Bloom is going to get hacked. We all know that. Then what? Elven Strat? Yes, of course, because he is OP too. When does OP end? It can not end because something must always be challenging, or this game would suck. Otherwise, you limit the range of play only to the style and whim of the elite in the game because they determine what is OP or not. Changing Bloom and every single rune is only going to lead the way to more requests for some new change. I think the scale back DOG did is fine, but leave some things as the were. It is unnecessary to change every single rune in this quest balance by rune change. So I am just fighting for some resemblance of difficulty to be left, and Bloom is one of them.

 

BTW, just for your information, this is called the pendulum effect. Something happens in a co-culture, like the POX community, where the pendulum swings too far to one side. In this case, the pendulum swung too far to the OP side. The pendulum effect kicks in when the community clamors for change because the pendulum is too far to one side. Their clamoring is heard, resulting in change; and change starts, which is what just happened with the revamp. The problem occurs in that the change pushed the pendulum too far to the other side and creates a new set of problems yet to be seen because it is new and exciting. The problem does not surface until people realize there is a new imbalance that needs addressing, in this case, not enough OP. This game is more "balanced" when there is some OP runes that exist to keep the game challenging. Bloom is my example at the moment.

 

The "challenge" aspect of this game comes not from having to beat runes that are OP, but from having to beat the players. In a pseudo-philosophical sense, by your logic, we are fighting not against a human opponent on the other side of the screen, but against the game itself; against the bits of electronic information that comprise what we call runes. This is not what Poxnora was meant to be. By default, it is a turn-based strategy game, pitting one person against another with runes acting only as intermediaries to achieve the goal of victory. If a rune is released and, after a time, is deemed OP, we as players object and cry for change because it detracts from the essence of what Poxnora is: a strategy game, wherein one human player beats another human player through superior tactics and cunning, NOT on the merits of how many OP runes they can abuse.

I read your post about the pendulum effect and I think "well yes, but..........why is this a bad thing again?". You seem to be against any sort of change that might threaten your ability to win because of rune abuse. Change keeps this game alive and interesting, it doesn't hold back progress as you think it does. OP runes are not, and should not, be what keeps this game challenging. It is, and should be, about outplaying the opponent with the resources at your disposal. Sometimes one side will have more powerful resources, it's true; other times, that same person will find themselves lacking powerful resources. That's just the way it goes. But to allow the existence of resources which give blatantly superior advantages to one side is cause for concern. It would be like a chess game where White starts with an extra Queen in place of a Pawn. White would be in clear possession of an "OP rune" in this case, and would make the game unfair for Black. The game would be less about strategy and more about White utilizing their extra Queen to completely demolish Black. So it goes with Poxnora and OP runes.

The bottom line is, if you use OP runes to keep the game challenging, you invariably get a situation where games basically come down to who can draw their OP rune first. Whoever does so gets a sizable advantage over the other player that is nearly impossible to come back from. Poxnora is not meant to be won on the basis of draws, or who can run the most OP runes. Catharsis Bloom needs to be brought in line in order for the essence of Poxnora to be preserved.

 

This is where you are wrong. Games should not be about playing against an opponent only. They should allow for flexibility for anyone to play how they want. If I want to compete against people like you, then I can learn the strategies necessary to compete and can use a non-OP rune like Bloom (if it gets changed) in competition. This philosophy, that many in here agree with, is what is killing the game's variety. What if I want to come in here and play an OP rune against the computers to waste some time and spend some money because I want to? Who are you to limit me in that option? Why would you want to alienate a contributing member to the Pox community who contributes ideas, money, time, energy, trades (for free by the way)? If I want a OP rune, like Bloom which helps me to win very challenging games against the computer that are on legendary (sorry if I am not as good as you), then why cant I? Oh yeah, I cant because everything is being changed to meet the needs of the competition community only (which is funny to me considering a large number new players contribute FINANCIALLY to this game). This is exactly the philosophy of gaming here that limits the amounts of new players coming to Pox who do not want to compete like you. I do not care too much about beating you in competition. I care about playing this game. I AM A POXER. I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY.

 

the computer challenges people?


more news at 11.

 

Thank you for the belittling remark. Sorry if I am not as good as you. (BTW, that is called cyber bullying.)

 

This is what happens when you love your runes to much..