Assessing Creepers (aka Wurmz!)

What is the purpose of a split with this deck?
The only runes that give worms any synergy are in FW.
I think some of the other Worms in other factions need Necrosis or Worm Lord.

I would like to see Sludge Wurm have Dive/Amp Poison/Necrosis for upgrade slot 2 (the reasoning being, dive is a horrible sandbag too much of the time, and 3 ranks as an upgrade is dumb; amp is mostly sandbag unless you stack it; Necrosis gives another option to Worm splits on a cheaper champ).


How do the two Fesh that remove themselves from play work if given Necrosis? Do they reduce the SDZ when they infest? (I know nobody would realistically Necro Hex those guys, but this is for SCIENCE)

 

I hate the new worm movement. Such lame, unnecessary changes.
Honestly, I just see all these patches as proof that this game will eventually die out.

 

I thought you were leaving. Did you forget something?

 

FW Wurmz - Games 6-10

Using: http://www.poxbase.com/deck/CdVC74CfZC7-cdYCh+CfKCdUCdWS6Zs2=Sns1ns7ps4frTR2Pe2ye21

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Game 6 - LOSS to FW Meta on 4-font K'thir Hill

Early Deploys:

ME: Dusk Creeper > Blood Fiend > Eye of Serkan > Rotmaw Creeper > Phantasmal Creeper
THEM: Moragen the Lost > Dusk Creeper > Rip Witch > Blood Fiend > Serkan​

I was able to contest bot early with Blood Fiend, but I made no effort to do anything but let Blood Fiend die. Deafening Aura all but guaranteed he would be useless once he was sucked in. He was one-rounded by Rip Witch via Battle Hymn. Phantasmal Creeper was one rounded the following turn with Soulreave after I contested his close font. Serkan hit the board and he chasm'd my Rotmaw Creeper with Domination.

The game was over at that point, but I played it out just to see if I could put anything meaningful together. I deployed a Carrion Colossus, but it was one-rounded with Essence Drain and non-basic attacks from Rip Witches (Piercing Shot). Worst 107 nora I've spent in a while.


Game 7 - LOSS to IS Meta on 4-font Shattered Peaks

Early Deploys:

ME: Phantasmal Creeper > Rotmaw Creeper > Eye of Serkan > (nothing) > Bloodworm
THEM: Master Axeman > (nothing) > Talgar Ironfist > Dwarven Catapult > Bastion the Avenger​

Dwarven Catapult posed an immediate problem by shifting a comfortable turtling position into a desperate attempt to cover fonts. He quickly launched Talgar in with Righteous Deflection forcing me to wait it out while I sacrificed Phantasmal Creeper.

I was able to one-round Talgar and Bastion in the same turn when he attacked the wrong Wurmz, but the sheer efficiency of IS champs compared to Wurmz won out in the end. This was probably the closest I came to having effective Wurm synergy, but it wasn't nearly enough. My opponent made multiple mistakes that I struggled to capitalize on even with multiple Mobilizations and perfectly clustered Anathemas.


Game 8 - LOSS to SP Meta on 4-font K'thir Hill

Early Deploys:

ME: Blinking Creeper > (nothing) > Bloodworm > Rotmaw Creeper > Blood Fiend
THEM: Metallic Slag > Slag Overmind > Cyclops Hurler > (nothing) > Peaks Doombringer​

He rushed my close font early on with Slag Overmind + Cyclops Hurler, but I one-rounded both two turns later thanks to Grim Well and Petrifying Gaze. He responded by one-rounding Rotmaw Creeper and Blood Fiend. The game was going rather well until Peaks Doombringer unexpectedly popped multiple champions with Eternal Storm as a result of Bounty Hunter ramping up the damage (don't believe that's WAI). I promptly tapped out.


Game 9 - RNG LOSS KF/ST Superchamp Rush on 5-font Underdepths

Early Deploys:

ME: Dusk Creeper > Rotmaw Creeper > Bloodworm > Grim Well + Elsarin Vex > Bloodworm
THEM: Obelisk of Foresight + Solitary Garu > (nothing) > L'usara's Staff + Butterfly Wings + Shield > Swiftwind + Protection (hidden)​

This was your standard shrine rush setup. I knew what to expect, but he had perfectly timed spells while I was unable to scry the Soulreave needed to deal with Solitary Garu. I don't feel I can improve upon what I did as I countered what he played as the options became available to me. This kind of game is massively dependent upon RNG, and I happened to lose the coin toss.


Game 10 - AUTO-LOSS to SP Slags on 5-font Underdepths

Early Deploys:

ME: Putrid Creeper > Rotmaw Creeper > Blood Fiend > Rotmaw Creeper > Blood Fiend + Elsarin Vex
THEM: Oozing Slag > Slag Overmind > Metallic Slag > Metallic Slag > Cyclops Hurler​

This game was little more than a whimper. The early pair of Metallic Slags basically broke the theme in half. Blood Fiend was useless, Rotmaw Creeper was useless, and my Putrid Creeper shamefully healed the Oozing Slags up top as they contested his font. Why didn't I deploy anything else? I didn't have anything else to deploy at the time. By the time I had ranged champs (which also keel over to Metallic Slag), most of my champs were meandering about.

Barbarian Bolt (why is he SF?) eventually hit the ground shoving the already ineffective Blood Fiends entirely off the board. I can almost imagine him shouting "THIS. . . IS. . . POX NORA!" as he did it.

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Thoughts

While I managed to survive (a very appropriate word) longer with this setup, I still felt that everything I deployed was inefficient. Even Blood Fiends (which others gladly use) break down when they don't have the right champs to support them. I experimented with Execution Order in the hopes that it would allow for surprise kills, but it never panned out.

I used Necro Hex exactly once, but it's not worth casting until right before a kill. Otherwise, you run the risk of wasting nora as you +1 from cast followed by -1 from death. This leads me to believe it should provide an offensive buff instead of being painfully redundant. Also, I still haven't found a FW champion out of theme I feel is worth running to cast this on. The heroes are tempting, but they're expensive deploys in an already overcosted theme.

I really like Grim Well as an equalizer for slower Wurmz, but I strongly believe Wurmz need to be moved up to a 6 SPD minimum. Nothing they have is powerful enough to warrant the current trade-off. Rotmaw Creeper is the epitome of what's wrong with Wurmz right now. His slow speed means he's a sub-par first deploy, he spends most of his existent chasing and he relies on Assault to deal any damage. I ran Shatter to deal with the current prevalence of equips, but I'm switching to Shred Defense for the next set of games to see if that makes any difference.

Blinking Creeper is growing on me thanks to Petrifying Gaze, but Worm Lord and Necrosis currently function as sandbags that weigh it down. He needs to regain Flight and the Wurmz racial ability made more immediately useful. I have yet to experience a single instance where Siege was triggered. This includes relic kills! I received the +2 DEF in several games this batch, but Wurmz are already so squishy that it did nothing to prevent their impending deaths. As soon as one falls, the SDZ recoils so rapidly that it might as well not exist.

Phantasmal Creeper and Putrid Creeper are quickly becoming my least favorite Wurmz (below even Rotmaw Creeper!). Phantasmal Creeper needs more utility or a complete role conversion. Yes, he allows for side font contesting gimmicks, but I always feel like I'm playing him just to die in a side font. Curse has proven largely ineffective despite my hopes that it would provide healing for Putrid Creeper. He's a tanky bugger on paper, but he lacks any staying power in practice. I can say with confidence that Revel in Misery and Worm Lord are currently weighing him down.

Eye of Serkan is the closest to being an efficient deploy, but he doesn't have Necrosis. I've rarely regretted deploying him, but it irks me that I have to bend over backwards to expand my SDZ by finishing kills with other champions. I don't mind he's squishy given the range via Dusk Creeper, but he currently conflicts with the theme.

Coming round to Carrion Colossus, I still don't know what to think. With exception to the one game I've won so far (opponent overreacted, I was in a tenuous position), deploying him has always been a waste. I've never not seen him one-rounded and the Carrionlings he spawns are usually mopped up with ease. Vivify allows for a hit or two, but it just hasn't worked out yet.

I have to agree with @WraithxxV that Polluted Martyrs may be required for Wurmz to become (more) effective, but I've chosen not to run them on purpose. I maintain that Wurmz should be able to get by without him and I don't agree with his inclusion in Wurmz.

I think the most important point I can make thus far is that I'm experiencing this in Uncommon/Rare league. I have the experience and capability to reach Limited with a top tier BG, but I'm currently struggling to equalize against players that make frequent mistakes. There have been so many instances where I thought to myself, "wow, if I were running [OTHER THEME], I'd have already won."

I see multiple opportunities, but I can't do anything with them.

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TL;DR

• Blood Fiends can't carry the theme on their own
• Execution Order is out
• Necro Hex is very questionable
• Grim Well is solid but doesn't make up for slower Wurmz
• Rotmaw Creeper is forever alone (switching from Shatter to Shred Defense)
• Blinking Creeper is a butter face, Necrosis/Worm Lord are sandbaggish (Siege is useless)
• Phantasmal Creeper is a depressing wallflower, needs more utility or a fashion makeover
• Putrid Creeper is a sleeping Snorlax, Revel in Misery/Worm Lord is not super effective!
• Eye of Serkan is a sexy pile of tentacles but lack of Necrosis is a dealbreaker
• Carrion Colossus is still up in the air, early signs point to "blargh!"
• 2x Polluted Martyrs may be required (currently not running them on purpose)

 

When I finish 20 games with FW Wurmz, I'll be doing 20 Games of FW/SP Wurmz. I'll remember to test this if someone else hasn't done so already

 

So how does the SDZ reduction work?
Is it -1 per death or -1 per necrosis champ you control per death?

 

awe sweeeeet i just got my second eye of serken, lets rage with sibling... aweeeeeeee fw. The faction of endless disappointment. at least hook eye up with some more hp! Mindthief creeper, it is time you get into your opponents head via implant please.

 

I forgot that it's impossible to sell your account in this game, so I'm hanging to my runes and taking a break from playing. BF4, Titanfall, and FIFA it is.

 

Right now, Necrosis works as follows:

• +1 SDZ when deploying a champion with Necrosis into your SDZ (this is very restrictive)
  
• +1 SDZ when a champion with Necrosis kills another champion with a basic attack (devalues Auras/DoTs)
  
• -1 SDZ when deploying a non-Arthropod/Worm champion anywhere (also restrictive)
  
• -1 SDZ when a champion with Necrosis is destroyed

In other words, every deploy is a wash unless it kills at least one other champion or doesn't die. This is what, currently, makes Necrosis so unreliable.

 

I was very sad that the main Necrosis was essentially not changed (only wormified) as I thought that was the MAIN problem with creeps.

Without a consistent net zone growth Worm Lord siege becomes useless.

I'll certainly play more but I think they still need work otherwise worm lord needs something epic like encroached or shrine defender as previously stated (but was shot down).

 

Also, Polluted Martyr and Carrion Colossus produce fully levelled Carrionlings from Propagate.

This means that when those 5hp Carrionlings die, you lose deployment zone. However, since they aren't deployed from the runedock, you don't gain any to start with.

Playing Colossus or Martyr atm is asking to have your deployment zone reduced to the minimum very quickly.

 

I probably would have noticed this if deploying Carrion Colossus didn't usually result in the game ending in 1-2 turns :S

Now even Polluted Martyr's role is questionable, thanks for pointing this out.

 

I posted a bug reporting this on day 1-2. There also seems to be weird interactions with this.
Some of them don't decrease the zone while others do even though they have creep. I'm thinking that it may be that some are becoming real champs and some not....may have to test but I know that these definitely are reducing the zone in a lot of instances.

 

On the Worm Lord topic:

I wouldn't mind seeing them promote the early game with a secondary effect rather than another shrine effect.

Few ideas:
"All friendly Worms and Arthropods that move within your deployment zone have Siege and +2 def. Units deployed in this zone gain the benefit at the end of the turn. Champions with Necrosis within 6 spaces do not reduce your SDZ when destroyed"

"All friendly Worms and Arthropods that move within your deployment zone have Siege and +2 def and gain Hostile for 5 turns when leaving your deployment zone. Units deployed in this zone gain the benefit at the end of the turn."


I also want to emphasise what people are saying regarding Auras and DoTs preventing SDZ growth. The Auras and DoTs are nice and I want them to stay, but we need a way to trigger growth on death.

Maybe:

"When this unit is deployed from the runedock at a Shrine your shrine's Deployment Zone expands by 1. When this unit hits an opposing champion with a basic attack, they become Necrotic for 2 turns. When this unit is destroyed, or a unit without race Arthropod or Worm is deployed, your shrine's Deployment Zone is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 3. "

Necrotic
When this unit is destroyed, the opposing shrine's Deployment Zone expands by 1.

That lets your DoTs and Auras take care of them but requires you to land a basic attack on your turn to accomplish it.

 

I will be playing 100% FF FW Worms until I drop to uncommon league. They are beautiful creatures.

 

I just want to play our titan, and they just gave me an excuse for it, so ill try wurms too.

 

So far I definitely think carrionling's should have had surge: worm instead of the ultra specific carrionling.
@Fikule I like the first version that negates creep death.

 

The creep racial works late game, but late game there are fonts far away from shrine. Applying the bonus to fonts too would be more challenging

 

FW Wurmz - Games 11-15

Using: http://www.poxbase.com/deck/CdVC74CfZc7-cdYCh cdTcfKCdUCdWS6Zspsns1ns7os4fs5arTR2Pe3e2ye21

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Game 11 - AUTO-LOSS to SL Dragons on 3-font Ironfist Mountains

Early Deploys:

ME: Blinking Creeper > Rotmaw Creeper > (nothing) > Blinking Creeper > Grim Well > Blood Fiend + Domination
THEM: Vex > Mauler > (nothing) > Mauler > Skywing Rumbler > Firestorm​

The moment Vex hit the board, it was over. Even after using Domination to move one Mauler out of range to kill, it wasn't enough. His ludicrously efficient champs allowed him to spell spam for the rest of the game. He one-rounded my Wurmz with such pathetic ease that I felt like a derp AI bot. I couldn't get to Vex and his 20+ charges and that's all that really mattered.


Game 12 - AUTO-LOSS to SL Dragons on 2-font Forsaken Wastes

Early Deploys:

ME: Putrid Creeper > (nothing) > Putrid Creeper > Bloodworm > Phantasmal Creeper > (nothing)
THEM: Vex > (nothing) > Skywing Patrol > Vindrax > (nothing) > Varu Howler​

See first game. . . *facedeskthroughtothefloor*

Due to the threat of a Mauler rush, I threw down an early Putrid Creeper pair with their 7 effective DEF (were later two-shot by Vex) while in my SDZ. This significantly delayed my deployment of ranged harassers. I should have dropped a ranged champ instead of a second, but I wanted to test their durability given the lack of opportunities up until that point.

Putrid Creeper. . . I am disappoint. . .

It didn't matter, though, because his power turn spells were significantly stronger than mine. Global AP gen doesn't improve the lackluster damage of Wurmz. He also ran up to attack just for giggles, because why not? Vex got yo back! I dropped a Carrion Colossus, moseyed on up and sighed as it all went sideways.
(Note: his average DMG was triple my own)

"gg no re" :*(


Game 13 - LOSS to FW/UD Meta on 4-font K'thir Hill

Early Deploys:

ME: Bloodworm > Blood Fiend > Rotmaw Creeper > (nothing) > Carrion Colossus
THEM: Stitched Tyrant > Whisperghast > (nothing) > Korona > Hekatian Voidraker​

I was able to deploy Carrion Colossus directly to the font with Stitched Tyrant for an easy kill, but he would eventually hard counter my Blood Fiends with a pair of Hekatian Voidrakers (Void Touch) and drop Fading Recollection on Carrion Colossus. Killing Korona proved impossible as I lacked the damage to one-round her before she would solo one-round a Wurm. I surrendered when the second Korona hit the board.

Rotmaw Creeper was more useful than previous with Shred Defense, but my opponent equipped both Hekatian Voidrakers with Tempest Crowns leaving me to wonder if Shatter would've won me a font battle or two. I had spent nora casting Anathema to prevent healing which could have been used against the first Korona.


Game 14 - LOSS to IS Constructs on 4-font Lost City

Early Deploys:

ME: Mindthief Creeper > Rotmaw Creeper > (nothing) > Carrion Colossus > Eye of Serkan
THEM: Dwarven Tinkerer > (nothing) > Scarlet Wing + Rugolth's Fist > Ironfist Glider > Dwarven Handler​

Seeing the early Rugolth's Fist told me this game was my opponent's to lose. He had a massive meatshield to hide ranged champs behind while my Carrion Colossus was the only (poor) option I had for overcoming Stunning. All kinds of knockback shenanigans ensued and I quickly lost my near font.

I downed Rugolth's Fist with Carrionlings (after Carrion Colossus died) via Soulreave, but the game was already over. I was spending more nora per champion and had to use spells to deal with his threats. He deployed champs the entire game and Wurmz aren't cost-effective enough to cope.


Game 15 - AUTO-LOSS to UD Spiders on 4-font K'thir Hill

Early Deploys:

ME: Blinking Creeper > (not enough nora) > Putrid Creaper > Rotmaw Creeper > Eye of Serkan
THEM: Hell Tick + Weaver > Mark of Sheoul > Brood Mother > Bloodletter > K'lzik​

This game unofficially ended turn 2 when I lacked the nora to deploy anything thanks to a forced first turn Blinking Creeper. Meanwhile, my opponent double deployed his first turn to double cap his second. I only had Carrion Colossus and Putrid Creeper revealed forcing my third turn deployment as well. I had little doubt I'd lost at that point.

I went on to Domi-chasm a Brood Mother only to lose my Putrid Creeper (same font) to a Bloodletter via Blade of the Snake. I deployed Mindthief Creeper to Paralyze a key champ at the other font only for K'lzik to eventually eat all the things. I fully expected losing horrifically, but a better BG might've turned things around with the opportunities I received this game.

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Thoughts

From top to bottom, Blinking Creeper is still a horribly overcosted Wurm. Also in this boat is Bloodworm as the few times I played him this round were forgettable. He needs his abilities shuffled around to give him access to both Life Siphon and Surge.

Carrion Colossus continues to be a letdown. I've come to regret deploying him, without fail. He's currently my answer Colossal/meatshield threats, but always falls short in the exchange. I want to remove him for the next round but feel he needs a few more deploys before I can confidently say he's not worth a slot.

I didn't reveal Dusk Creeper at all and will be adding a second as a result.

Eye of Serkan is still annoying in regards to his lack of Necrosis and I feel restricted running a single Necro Hex just to address this. I didn't even use the spell this round, but SDZ is so integral to Wurmz right now that I can't risk not having one when I actually need it.

Mindthief Creeper proved to be a more flexible deploy than Phantasmal Creeper. I'll be adding a second and removing Phantasmal Creeper entirely. I wasn't overly impressed by his performance, but Phantasmal Creeper is so ineffective that I don't recommend running him at all. Putrid Creeper is the same: DO NOT RUN. Every time I've deployed him he's proven to be an utter waste of nora. His damage output is pathetic, his survivability is surprisingly misleading (Revel in Misery rounds out his sandbag trinity) and he lacks anything resembling Wurm synergy.

I'm conflicted when it comes to Rotmaw Creeper. Shred Defense was useful at times, but dropping Shatter often seemed a mistake as this round saw a number of equips I could have removed. I can't help but feel like he needs one or the other on base to solidify his role in Wurmz. I've committed to Shred Defense, for now.

The addition of Domination provided opportunities I didn't previously have, but I'm currently not convinced I need more than one. I didn't use Mobilization at all this round which suggests that AP isn't as valuable for Wurmz given how sluggish/weak they are as a theme. I'll continue to run one, but my likelihood to cast it will continue to be minimal until Wurmz are revisited.

Snuff (previously the Creeper/Zombie spell) was very effective. I used it to prevent a number of defensive spells and apply Lumbering long enough to finish off stronger champs with my weaker Wurmz. It needs the Mutant clause updated to Worm, though.

Soulreave remains an important spell for countering various abilities. The number of times I've thought to myself "ugh, where's mah lawl?!" warrants adding another. Steal Life, however, will remain a single despite its current effectiveness. I haven't found myself wishing it were revealed or off CD, yet.

Crown of Corruption saw play exactly once, but I strongly believe it will reveal itself as a useful tool with more games. It combos well with enough runes in the BG that I don't see a reason to consider dropping it. "Needs more time" is an apt assessment.

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TL;DR

• Bloodworm needs access to Life Siphon + Surge
• Carrion Colossus gets the dunce cap
• 2x Dusk Creeper for reliability
• Eye of Serkan makes 1x Necro Hex somewhat required
• Mindthief Creeper is situationally useful
• Phantasmal Creeper is out
• Putrid Creeper is out
• Rotmaw Creeper is lose-lose-slow
• Domination and Steal Life are worth a slot
• Mobilization is less and less worthwhile (Wurmz struggle to leverage AP gen)
• Snuff is reliable, needs text update (Mutant -> Worm)
• 2x Soulreave for all the counters!
• Crown of Corruption "needs more time"

 

I'd just like to say Carrion colossus has been stolen from zombies again.