Deleted

Discussion in 'Rune Ideas and Suggestions' started by Fikule, May 30, 2014.

  1. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    [Deleted]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  2. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Used for human melee guys to deal more damage.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  3. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    The parry ability makes no sense.
    If you parry something it does not damage you, nor the oppoent and making it apply a dot to the owner of the ability makes it even more weird.
     
  4. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    It doesn't apply a DoT ^^

    We have Block/Riposte for "Parry", but I couldn't think of a better name for it.

    The idea is having your champion retaliate (maybe "Retaliate"?), dealing some damage back to those attacking. But it exerts them, but rather than losing AP, they lose some damage for their next turn.

    Consider it to be 1/2/3 defense that also throws some of the damage back at the cost of your own damage (except at rank 3).
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  5. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    I misread it and now I see that it is a debuff for your self instead.
    Still does not like it.
     
  6. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    It's your own choice to debuff someone. And rank 2 is a loss of 1 damage for dealing 2. Net gain.

    Consider it the downside to gaining (at rank 2) the equivalent of 2 defense and damage shield 1 that also works on ranged attacks.

    Rank 1 is debuff territory.
    Rank 2 is pretty even.
    Rank 3 is all gain and no loss.

    It also means, that as well as possibly using the equipment on a human, you might also use it on a champion that has 1 or 2 ranks of the ability already. It's an equipment with options ^^

    I think, if I would buff any part of the ability, I would make the retaliation damage class as a basic attack. Consider all the implications. For one, the equipment would apply soultap to anyone who attacked the unit. It would also add extra reason to equip it to units with DoTs or Weary/Debilitate/Distract etc.

    But then you'd have to increase the damage lost and probably make the 1/2/3 be affected by armor so it can be countered with the right amount of defense... unless you equip it to someone with strike... more combos.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  7. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    I don't like parry, and why'd you want to tie humans to soultap?
     
  8. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Why assume it ties humans? You don't have to equip it on a human.

    Anything you don't like about Retaliate in particular or is it, once again, that it has a small disadvantage?
     
  9. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Ok. Removed Retaliate and replaced it will Damage Shield: Physical 2 and 1 Defense.

    And since people think this is a human only equipment (making the whole concept of "Learn" kind of pointless), it now just gives Flanking and Phantom Dash without Learn and costs 10 more nora.

    I think all that makes it really specific though.

    edited my description to say it's for human melee guys

    edit: Actually, without "Learn" it sort of defeats the point of it. Removing the suggestion. I suppose the system works :p My next equipment will be race specific.

    Wish I could get this level of criticism on my actual linked ideas :p
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  10. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Retaliate has too little impact and needless ranks, something like "reflect 5 points of damage to melee attackers" would have been better IMO, but I still think that we already have block + riposte or CA: melee for that.
    And I assume it ties humans because any human you equip will have soultap and the soultap synergy is elsewhere so it would have been a sandbag ability on humans.
     
  11. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    To be fair I didn't see how 2 damage and 2 nora gen was a sandbag anywhere, especially in a theme that focuses so heavily on debuffs (curse, chill, rabid, distract, blind, etc). But I suppose the amount of debuffs witches bring isn't accounted for in their theme yet.

    But my point was more that soultap is still a 2 damage DoT on top of what you'd have been reflecting back. So it would have supplemented your lost damage from Retaliate. In the end, it's a perma-DoT, and that doesn't have to be theme specific to be useful. Especially when the human bonus was optional (due to learn covering it's own cost).

    The point was you could have equipped it on a spirit or a witch, and both would have paid what they should for the item (as the spirits wouldn't have to pay for Phantom Dash).

    But it's deleted now anyway, so I guess it's a moot point.
     
  12. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    Why delete it? Why not try to change it instead?
     
  13. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    I did change it. But when something goes too far from the original concept, it's not the same idea.

    My main idea for the equipment was "Learn" as an alternative to just extra effects for certain races. i.e. If a human got a Learn ability from the equipment, they paid for the ability using Learn itself, so the price wasn't part of the equipment. The idea was to allow an equipment to be used generally and specifically without the player feeling they were being inefficient by not equipping it to a human.

    This is why the equipment had Retaliate and Soultap on base and that is what you paid the 25 nora for. If you put it on a human, they also got Learn, and that would let them pay 10 nora to gain Phantom Dash (35 nora total).

    Parry being a bad idea isn't an issue, that can change. But the point of the equipment was Learn, and apparently people still assumed it was a race specific equipment with it on. So the concept didn't really fly. And I'd prefer to use the equipment name on something else that might do better because I liked the name :p
     

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