Discussion: Final Patch of 2015

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Senshu, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Still insanely good at that price if it functions.

    Damn it Sok, you need to remember that worms don't get jack in the way of DMZ!
     
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Like Drown, this was run at 1x in most decks and 2x in some.

    It does not always get cast due to the situational nature of it, but it is often also double casted when the opportunity presents itself.

    It's hard to say whether this spell is "on par" which other factions AOEs, considering that it's pretty much the only spell that does what it does. I'd be interested in your analysis on how you came to this conclusion and why also how +5 nora changes it completely.

    Note too the buffs to the other AE spells FS has. Runes like PHS and FE have pushed out some of the more nuanced FS spells and now they should be more competitive.

    Again, as mentioned the overall goal of these non-champion rune passes is to diversify the spell options for each faction.


    No, it's 25 HP and 2 DEF. It was 20 HP and 1 DEF before this. But even if it was, not sure what you are saying here with saying it's a bad idea AND shoebox at the same time.


    It used to have Relocate Self. That was also removed. You can feel Snaptooth are OP because of the racial (which I am on the fence about), but I think either way this relic was doing too much while having too much HP for what it does.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  3. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Also, reducing HP on Crypt opens it up to Seism one-shots. 21 is a really important breakpoint.
     
  4. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    If it is going to cost 80 nora, how about you get rid of some of its random thematic restrictions? No fly or amphibious so much, as champions are paying for that, but racial aspects that are not part of a unit's cost.
     
  5. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    That's well good and all but what is your basis for these criticisms
     
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I wouldn't mind doing that, but always have codetime to consider for these kinds of things.

    Honestly, Drown's restrictions have always been "flavor" more than balance.
     
    doubtofbuddha likes this.
  7. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Except for undead. Its imperative to the games balance drown continues to not affect undead
     
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Only Spirits cannot be Drowned. Zombies can get waterlogged!
     
  9. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    Digging the reskin. IS Minister reskin is 5 nora more expensive than the original.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  10. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Yeah, I like flavor as much as the next person but I would really prefer not to have flavor restrictions on an 80 nora spell.

    Besides most FW champions are so cheap that drowning them is stupid, particularly now. And the ones that aren't tend to hang out in anti-magic areas anyway.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  11. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    I have to say that my two fundamental problem with this is that since you did not apply a blanket nerf to "used frequently in meta deck spells" so it ends up hurting some factions more than others. It feels like this has hit FS harder than other factions, but that may simply be because I play FS more than other factions. The other part of this is simply that some spells are not going to be worth playing no matter what their cost is. Instead it will result in a shift towards using relics or equipment or whatever. It almost feels like you are encouraging that for FS because of the simultaneous nora pearls buff.

    Like you recently decreased the cost of the "All Champions get +2 spell reach" spell to 10. That is all fine and good for a correct cost perspective but it does not change the fact that in a slot-restricted game I am not going to waste one of my valuable slots on a sspell that does that. This extends to a lot of the other spells you buffed too. Like a 5 temporary hp spell for a particular theme is mostly just not something that is ever going to be worth running as it is. If you really want to change the spell mix you are going to have to go back and redesign and recode some spells that have effects that are just not that very useful or release new ones that have a comparable power level.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  12. d386

    d386 New Member

    Why would you do that? I mean i read your answer "to obfuscate rating for most players" but why? What purpose serves this?
    I wanna see my rank even if im 247th..

    And while im on it: New rank icons look much worse than the old ones. The rank icons was one thing i really loved about this game :( BRING BACK THE SKULLS! :)

    But on the other hand i really like what you have done to the game in general. I feel it is much more balanced and it plays better then when i left. That was in 2013..
    I like your take on rebalancing stuff, although you killed boost skele 3 :D I loved my skeles.. now its less exciting.

    But anyway im off topic. Just felt that i write something in my first post in years. Just continue your good work. And bring the old rank icons back... ;) and rechange the ranking page..
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I agree with all that you said. And yes, it's quite possible some factions haven't gotten the correct adjustments - but I suspect that we could debate that endlessly.

    And no, I am not encouraging shift towards equipment or relics in FS. Most Spell Seals did get buffed just because they aren't used very much but are an interesting effect and were picked up in the relic pass.

    And yea, I mean, I'd love to redesign some of them and make them actually worth using instead of just cost adjustments, but I don't have infinite coder time :( There are examples of these things in every faction. I have hit some of them, for example, like Twisted Emerald which was just plain useless/broken for awhile.

    There's SO much I would do if I had more coding resources, but I suspect everyone would have their own list of priorities as well, so...
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    We have been receiving some feedback that players want to see their overall rank, so we'll consider adding something. As for the icons, you are in the minority here... most people disliked those icons :D
     
  15. Atherhog

    Atherhog I need me some PIE!

    I hate not seeing my rank :(
     
    Cydna likes this.
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Thanks for the feedback :D
     
  17. d386

    d386 New Member

    Sure the ranking page needed some work. I never really got what those singled out ranks for each league, or whatever you call it, should do. Just plain top to bottom. Place 1 to xxxx whatever.
    What people disliked about the old icons was that the difference between the "leagues" where pretty minor. "You just get one more blue dot in the upper right" or something was what i heard mostly.
    There have been soo many nice icons over the years that you could easily have a completly new/different for each league if you would just get rid of most of them. BUT i dont think this is something i will ever get the way i would do it, so i shouldnt waste your and my time.. Pox still has much larger problems that need your attention.

    edit: New icons just look so... i dont really know.. childish? Maybe thats not 100% accurate but i think this game is mostly played by a rather mature audience
     
  18. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    One thing about that racial is that it is pretty darn cheap for what it does. It gives Amphibious (1 Nora) and Carnivore (6 Nora) no matter what deck it is in and then gives a rank of Multiattack whenever another Snapthooth is within 4 spaces. Let's assume just one rank of Multiattack is given (8 Nora). Murkwater Frenzy is, I believe, 5 Nora. Regardless of your view on the racial, I do think it is undercost for what it does.
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Carnivore shouldn't be there anymore. But your point still stands, considering the value of MA, particularly on ranged champions.

    My concern with nerfing it would be whether the theme as a whole is really a problem. Yea, this aspect, in isolation might be OPed, but it doesn't realistically affect anything outside of the theme, so I think it's important to keep that in context. I suspect the balancing factor is that unlike meta decks and other themes, Snaptooth don't have a ton of actual synergy beyond the racial, so they don't compound the way some themes do and thus the impact of the racial is mitigated to some extent. Plus many Snaptooth are expensive, so.

    And the other problem is that there is a lot of pushback on MANY game mechanics, SPD buffs, DMG/DEF stacking, indirect damage, cheap spam... at the same time, we do want the themes to have interesting racials and designs that define how you play them, and we don't want everything to be the same. So it's a balancing act.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  20. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Eh, snaptooth need their racial to be reworked - no way around it.

    Not now necessarily, but before they become more developed.
     

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