While I don't agree with Prami's posts, I have one question: why's everyone so offensive towards him? Yes, he has a weird point of view, but do you really have to smash him to the ground? Just let him leave his feedback.
I don't like the idea of TotC giving 3 ranks of Magic Nova. At one point, TotC gave Magic immunity to Wizards, but this was too powerful since Magic is the second most common damage type. Like it says at the end of the post, i don't mean to buff/nerf anything, but rather change how the runes function mechanically. If it doesn't do enough, and i think it does, then why not go halfway and give ranks of Resist: Magic too? Moonbeams already has a form of Strike on base (Illuminate) so it feels incredibly redundant, and that space can be used for more thematic abilities like Numerous. It's a melee fairy with the option to perform a ranged attack at the cost of damage. Surge: Enemy is probably better than Surge: Fairy there, but i wasn't sure which felt more appropriate. Fairies are cheap though, and putting out 5 of them is not hard, compared to other themes. That said, the build i suggested compensated in ways you are not acknowledging. +1 SPD + Dissipate = +2 DMG, Psychic Aura on base = +2 DMG. My goal was to encourage closer ranged combat with the champion, and i think i hit the nail on the head, without changing too much. Pox Nora has a long history of taking player feedback seriously, if only because the owners have been too lazy to balance the game themselves. As a result, some players have an intense sense of ownership of the game. At one point, SOE got a bunch of the whales together (people spending a lot of money on the game) and formed a sort of private feedback council (at least according to rumor, credible rumor), which only strengthened this feeling. My guess, is that some of the people leaving harsh feedback are those very whales. This is nothing though. Back on the old SOE forums, things escalated to death threats when i suggested that the interaction between Knockback +Takeroot wasn't intuitive.
I'm not in this "illuminati" however I feel very strongly about the runes in this faction and how they are played or should be played and so when someone comes along and decides that his way is the best I intend to say i disagree. I'm not particularly offensive about it, rude or obnoxious but it gets frustrating when you see things and think, how is that any help to the theme or to the champ at all
I used to read the old forums as well, Prami, I just don't understand why people have the need to throw casks full of vitriol at you.
I think it's because he posts bad ideas, people tell him the ideas are bad, he gets defensive for no reason about why he can have his own opinion. Sure you can, but you have to realize that opinions will often differ so be ready to get criticized. When you post countless threads full of ideas that don't really have any benefit, they're change for the sake of change with no real significant bonus, people start to get frustrated. If 20 people tell you your idea is bad, your idea is probably bad.
Uh.. I don't think it was "whales." Player Development Committee (or something like that) existed back in Octopi days if I'm not mistaken.
Prami, I don't think there is lots in the fairy theme that needs changing its a fun and nice theme to play they all work really well with each other, foment, improve damage, prismatic crystals, illuminate and various other CC that help, some of your changes that you propose would completely ruin my deck and i think many others and so I've given you points as to where they fit well together, how I use them together to work well and I think there are loads of things in this game that might not fit well within the expected fantasy but I interpretate it in my own way as do many others on this site.
Consensus doesn't help me. Consensus tells me that an idea is popular/unpopular, but not why. Feedback is appreciated, but when your feedback can be summed up as "your ideas are bad, and you should feel bad!" then you aren't doing anything except voicing your dissent in an offensive & careless way. Much more helpful. When/if-ever DOG gets around to balancing the game, i would assume that everyone's decks will get blown apart. This is a function of the games complexity. Decks are made up or 30 runes and they all interact with each other in different ways. Change 1 or 2 things, and you stand the risk of setting off a chain reaction of interactivity. This isn't something to fear though, this is an inevitability of the sort of reorganization that Pox Nora is in such desperate need of. I would be interested in hearing what you have a problem with in particular though. Interactions that you feel I've broken through the suggested changes. It's a good thing for the different themes to inspire varying fantasies, but that freedom isn't an excuse not to have a basic fantasy to begin with. This isn't just a matter of aesthetics. It's a matter of mechanics too, how the runes are played.
Ok so, telekenetic thrust screws up my forcebarrier comobo with fae oracles and sprites Strike on moonbeam so that it actually is able to illuminate champs because it has very little damage and so could be negated by def + tough quite easily esp in SL The Nectar fairy def nerf I don't understand its a support champ but it needs something to survive, i'd like to see it have charged heal and heal charged or something like it. Starlight already has reflection, doesn't need mirrored and there's already illuminate for the fairy's and I've already said why I run it. Wisp is an integral part of my fairy deck because of nexu aura, and magical bomb as it reduces the def and you say about fairy needing more melee and yet is a melee fairy. You don't need all of the additional speed on champions due to bridge to nowhere, it can relocate itself so doesn't need 2x in deck and gives most fairys 8 spd easily, it gives them escape so no need to put it on enchantress, and mobility means that melee champs aren't as necessary. Crown of petals yeah that fine, its just a basic aesthetic change Tower of Amareth change means that you can't use such things like placing it out next to a low health champ to finish them off. It actual hinders the ways in which it could be played. I think that it reduces the viability in this case in the same way of throne New animation on stella would be nice as its kinda weird I always think its backfired and regulate being non cleansible would be nice.
Oh and I use null beast for close combat alot too as it is a great tank for the deck and with surge fairy has a nice set of damage.
Here's why I get edgy with Prami - and apologies for the earlier outburst, it won't happen again... 1) I've watched him play. He uses some interesting thematic ideas, but mostly poorly implemented, quite simplistic (all poison, for example) and very "stubborn" - by which I mean "This theme is coherent, therefore it should win, and if it doesn't win that is a reflection on the game, not on my deck-building or playing abilities." 2) He's constantly coming into the forum with an absolute barrage of walls-of-text about how every single part of every single theme and subtheme should be completely changed beyond recognition... all of the changes are generally based on his experiences with his preferred themes, boosting or complementing those themes and trashing all the other thematic aspects and interactions. 3) When challenged on the ideas presented he's "too busy to respond" or even worse, answers questions with questions, makes nasty snarky comments about the people responding, basically asserting that if you don't like his ideas it's because you're a "whale" or something. 4) The followup to an exhausting and frustrating discussion about the initial TL;DR wall of text barrage of changes is... more of the same. Prami, how about this: make your list of rune ideas, but don't post the whole thing. Pick ONE rune, and discuss in detail why that ONE rune should change. Include all interactions, synergies, and thematic cross-linkages within and across factions. Alternatively, pick ONE ability, and do the same. You'll get much more useful and interesting feedback and a lot less snarky dismissal/rage.
This would help. The sheer volume of suggestions that get rolled out here make it difficult to discuss.
I didn't suggest any changes to the nectar Fairy beyond new artwork. I have no idea what you're referring to. Tower of Amareth works fine as it is. The difference i suggested, between closest to attacking champion & closest to the relic itself is pure semantics. That said, the change i suggested would turn the random damage into damage more easily focused on the target being attacked, rather than all of the damage from the Tower being focused on the champion nearest to it. It wouldn't work exactly as it does now, but it would still be very useful. It's easy to lose track of which abilities/effects come from where. Indicating that the abilities granted by the Crown of Petals are upgrades would help distinguish them. It's a little bit more than a basic aesthetic change, as removing the equip removes the abilities & there are abilities (like Confuse) that affect upgrades specifically. The Wisp change i suggested was whimsical at best. I feel it doesn't belong fully within the faerie theme, but that doesn't mean that i want to remove the rune. There's actually an error in the text, leftover from when i was editing it in notepad while i played. I had wanted to remove it a step from the Faerie theme, but still keep most of it's Synergy. I mulled over removing it's class, and forgot to delete the note. I had meant to keep it as a Wizard. Maybe you're right, maybe it doesn't need any changes, but i have a hard time imagining that it's a Faerie. You're right about the Starlight Sylph, but i would still like to see greater division between the classes. It use to have Nora Barrier, so that's really why the bubble is there. Again that I'm not set on what i would like to see done with the Sylph. Maybe it should just become a Shaman Wizard. Maybe that's all it needs. It's not a matter of need, rather it's a matter of what's appropriate to distinguish the theme. Again that I'm not thinking in terms of the current maps, because the current maps aren't up to the standards i would like to see them at. That however, i will post on some other day, along with pictures of the sort of thing i would like to see. That there is so little room for variation in SPD due to the maps is a problem though. Speed is definitely an important aspect of the Faerie's fantasy. The Moonbeams already have a superior form of Strike on base, in the form of Illuminate. It has Multiattack to take advantage of it's own status effect, so it doesn't need an ability to reduce defense to 0 on top of it's other ability to reduce defense to 0, for any of your champions.
No Prami, I believe you are only half right with this. At first, I had a similar internal reaction towards your posts as others that have replied in this thread (even though I have nothing to do with fairies and haven't even read& analyzed all the suggestions yet). I'm not a whale, I'm a completely f2p player and I certainly don't have a sense of ownership of the game. But precisely because I know Pox devs have a history of taking player feedback seriously and sometimes implementing things that turn out to have been a bad idea, my first reaction when glancing over your suggestions was fear. Fear that your suggestions might possibly be considered, even though I didn't see them as good. I'm only trying to say that the sense of ownership of the game that you speak of is not the only reason why people might react the way they do. Also, being a paying customer is not the only cause of that 'ownership' thing. The stronger someone identifies themselves with a Rune, a theme or just generally a BG, the more they'll feel like that element is a part of them and in a sense they'll feel like they own it. But if you actually received death threats, well, that's just plain stupid of whoever made them. ------------------ I'm sorry that I don't have much to add to the actual topic, except that of all the fairies, I have a crush on Conclave Warden as it is and don't want it changed like you are suggesting ;-;. Also, if I understood you correctly, you're suggesting having an entire theme of 8 speed champions which sounds awful, no offense. And simultaneously increasing the overall map size is just gonna make the fast champions better and the slow champions worse, imo.
I try to respond to everything that i can (or worth responding to), and that's more than i can say for most so i really have no idea where you're coming from. Normally i wouldn't respond to #2, but to illustrate my response to #3... So the source of your rage was that i have opinions and want to discuss them? Uh huh... It's such a ridiculous rhetorical statement that by all rights i have no business responding to it. On that note, while you seem to have a problem with me, I've just put my finger on the one i have with you. Most of your posts are just that, rhetorical. Generic, mostly incredulous, sometimes outright insulting, and always it seems that you don't actually want a response to them. I don't, and have never, used a purely poison deck. I have a single deck which is incomplete for the lack of runes built out of the KF/FS poison theme (which was left half developed along with the KF/FS plant theme). It's been rather successful compared to many of the other themes I've tried to build out of, but it has it's own problems & it's own changes are needed. I've already posted on the most major one, and that's the current state of Poison Trap. The current Poison Trap needs to become a separate ability, with a separate sprite. The Poison Trap as it's used now should become a single target damage trap, just like the rest of the bear traps. I'll have to look for my post on this later. This will probably be my next theme post, followed by Vashal & Treefolk. Wizards will be harder to tackle, and so will Elves (independent of other themes). I don't play anything consistently, and I'm not trying to force anything into any particular play-style. I'm not trying to buff/nerf anything, but rather to change how certain runes function mechanically (like Petrichor & Catharsis Bloom, which i feel are boring, lazily designed runes with little thought towards balance and counter-play). Possibly, but there needs to be room for more variance in Speed, that was the point i was trying to make. I'll have to make a separate post one day, to better illustrate what i mean. What do you like about it as it is now? What don't you like about what i suggested? Specifics would be wonderful.
If I recall you posted a Poison deck with like 12 champions.. so he's probably talking about that one. Don't remember that well.
Illuminate does not process unless damage processes. No successful damage = no Illuminations. On champs with any combination of high def, tough, resistance, resilience, Hunter, Dueling, or Foe, the initial damage from the Moonbeams might not be enough. That's why she has strike. Strike ensures that damage will process most times. Given that her base damage is 7, base speed is 6, range is 4-6 and HP is 37... she seems to completely fit into your "fantasy" as a small, weak, but effective support/multiplier rune. Again: read the description of the Ability before you strip the champ with the ability of the capability to actually USE that skill. With base damage of 7, No Strike = No damage in many, many cases. No Damage =no illuminate. No illuminate, then moonbeams is never going to be run again.
I've played your all-poison deck. I've responded directly to multiple suggestions with reasons why I disagreed with the suggestion. The answers are invariably "it fits the fantasy" -- that's teleological obfuscation... and you accuse me of being a rhetoritician? lol.
Huh, i never really noticed that, not sure why. That should definitely become an on-hit ability. I'll update that now.
