FS avatar and shrine bonus problem...

that's not winning the game by running away. that's placing traps and someone walking on them. did lemsu force them to walk their by retreating? I think not. has he killed many champs by leaping onto them and squashing them beneath his enormous body? I think not. how many has he slaughtered with retreat?

 

enlighten me to why this makes him better than other avatars? are other avatars stationary?

 

Stationary? No. Relatively lacking mobility? Obviously yes. The more AP they need to spend on movement the less damage they'll be able to put out against Lemsu. Leap (and to a lesser extent, Retreat) also allows Lemsu to bypass tanks to get at the glass cannons that are the real threats in some situations. It can also in rarer cases allow Lemsu to get to and clear a Font before it can be contested again, or the opposing Avatar can close in. It can allow Lemsu to run from the main army and flank around to go after the enemy shrine much more effectively than other avatars would be capable of.

Positioning is actually important, and Lemsu does it better than the other Avatars.

You know, Divine Blessing is completely useless on it's own, as is Momentum, Resurgence, Battle Harden, all those abilities that many, including the OP, yearn for and point to as saying: "this is what FS is missing!" Yet you deride someone using other runes in combination with the effects of the FS avatar.

 

I can also create hypothetical situations whereby an avatar(any avatar) can excel, im not going to do this because I see this as incredibly desperate and clutching at straws.

im not even getting started on your second point because your targeting that largely at the op. Im not concerned with his point, im concerned with your idea that FS is one of the best avatars when, it is without fail, the worst. what I will say is that most of the time all of those abilities you just named are better than lemsus.

 

So, pointing out when an ability can be useful is the same as being "incredibly desperate and clutching at straws."

*facepalm*

That's your opinion. One which you haven't backed up with anything substantive other than being entirely dismissive of others. "I don't think your argument is valid therefore my statement, which I won't even bother to back up, is clearly correct!"

I personally think Lemsu is among the top 4 (though not top 3). You disagree? Fine with me, I don't care to try and convince you so much as have a discussion, but you don't even bother with that and just go right to derision and dismissing others' opinions out of hand. You don't want a discussion? Then GTFO. Doesn't make your opinion any less valid than my own, but it does make your posts here a waste of everyone's time.

Even statements like this you don't even bother to go in and say WHY you feel that way. Why? Because discussing when an ability would excel is "desperate and clutching at straws" to you. Apparently.

 

actually ive already stated my point. retreat wins you nothing. neither does leap. if you fail to understand the principles of the game, that's your problem im not here to spell everything out for you. im being dismissive because you seem to have a terrible comprehension of the game. also top 4? so hes better than Ermallion, Zarimahl, Sapaleh, Semmir and Laerik? (in no particular order)

 

also, whilst i'm here, may as well highlight Oltok to you as being better as well since you like examples. mountain king provides mountaineer, which rivals Agility. it also provides +4 damage and + 3 defense, which makes it better than Agility. Thunder Strike, is an aoe attack where as envenom is single target. it makes Thunderstrike better. Waterwalker is worse than rebuke due to its limited nature. the only real ability lemsu has over oltok is Marsh Singer. so all in all oltok is better than lemsu. However in one of your earlier posts you stated you believed oltok was worse. just saying.

 

it's all situational by your opponent and your traps your words defends our objection i can't build a deck due to my avatar

 

sorry but we are not playing against 700-800 rating guys so when the tactical moves is near to equal both you and your opponent lemsu is just useless also maybe i am dumb but i can't predict when opponent avatar comes into play and f*cks my everything they can use their avatar can be so usefull to destroy everything but lemsu is just ''works'' (i mean runs) when you already lost the game

 

Uhh, I've avatared to run down chase and slaughter an IS avatar.
Lemsu the speedy.

 

I (and others) disagree. Movement is useful, and getting a few extra spaces away from or closer to something can mean the difference between being able to kill or not be killed. That is one of the principles of the game you seem to think I don't understand.

Emallion I feel is worse, the main thing going for it is Resurgance and that's largely on par with Marsh Singer, probably a little worse, and Blood Offering, which has that unlimited range but otherwise does less damage than Spit and depends on other positioning more; Zarimahl I feel is worse in a general sense but not directly (Binding messes with Agility, and Anti-Magic decreases the usefulness of Marsh Singer indirectly), Sapaleh is worse in some situations but better in most others (long term use vs. short term use). Semmir and Laerik I'd say are better.

Mountaineer doesn't rival Agility, Agility is simply better. The stat boosts are what make Mountain King note-worthy; Mountaineer is good and all, but it doesn't make Oltok faster or anything, and in my view Leap and Retreat make Lemsu a better personal combatant. Thunder Strike is a glorified Chain Lightning, and generally deals less damage than Spit unless it hits more than 2 targets (or 2 targets with very high DEF), and costs more AP. Waterwalker and Rebuke both mess with AP in different ways, but I'd agree that Rebuke is generally better, minus perhaps Drown/Undertow interaction. And while Encourage is nice, I think Marsh Singer is better.

Feel free to disagree, and I appreciate that you actually laid out why you feel differently, instead of merely being dismissive.

Lemsu does lack a "win more" effect, that's true (beyond being a fat champion with Leap and all that), but if you're waiting to the point that you've already lost you're doing it wrong. And if all you're doing is running away (at least without some follow-up strategy, such as using other units to press for an objective on the other side of the map, retreating towards the opposing avatar, etc.) than you're doing it very wrong.

 

Change spit poison6 to poison cone6 and give it a different name for starters. I never understood why not one of our bohoppers has spit poison. I guess poison dart equip does that. Marsh singer6 is passive so it allows your opponent to control it with abilities like backlash, or nora link. Give Lemsu an active way to generate nora. Poison siphon. It's like flame siphon but poison damage for nora. Those are some of my ideas. Try to think of the solution to your problems instead of whining and crying because you think everyone has better toys than you.

 

it's not whining i'm telling why i disagree with Ohmin
and i told my suggestion area attack (water vortex ,tidal wave ,poison cone) can be usefull and giving ap or resistance smth. (swamp resistance = all friendly champs gaining tough1 regen3 and encroached for 6 turns)
Agility can be Swamp Lord (this unit has domain: water , massive leap and swamp venger=(when a friendly FS champs damaged this unit has +4 dmg) so the quote on Lemsu can be right...Marsh singer can be (Blood for Swamp (active) ) CD6 = all friendly real champions has Blood for swamp 3 (like eviscareted effect but loss life version and you gain 1 nora per dmg) total is 5 nora per champs in 3 round all dmged champ's 1 space shallow water and this is all for swamp, swamp for all !

 

they dont give a sh*t lemsu is coming or not he has nothing to trhreat and opposing avatar can easily deal with lemsu itself also he can deploy 1 range champ and you are done or just cast 2-3 spell to kill it

 

Your changes sound more effective. I hope this happens.

 

Lemsu can beat most avatars 1v1, or that's been my experience anyway; exceptions being FW (because Boon and Bind directly soft-counter Spit and Agility), or if you're so far behind Lemsu's advantages cease to matter (in which case you probably already lost anyway or chose the wrong tactic). He can also deal with "1 ranged champ" decently well as well, certainly better than most other Avatars; certainly it depends on position and such, but Agility gives Lemsu far more options for positioning than any other Avatar.

When it comes to spells, there's not much for it short of being FW (which doesn't always help anyway), but as FS you can generally spam more spells, so you'll have a better time when the shoe is on the other foot. Really the main issue is that you've gotten yourself in kill range (and again it'd be a problem with most all the factions anyway), which means you Transfigured too late, or lost so badly elsewhere that it doesn't matter (even Balance probably wouldn't save you in such situations).

 

hes never gonna listen to what you say. He is obsessed that the FS avatar is the worst avatar. Just stop responding to him. It's a dead thread waiting to happenn. He only sees what other factions have and what we don't have.

 

I'm obsessed :3

 

and yes i told it before it's comparing thread

 

FS avatar is bad and everyone liking it should feel bad.