If you aren't an FS player or a dev, go away. Alright, FS is about to be cratered hard in the face ot the wrath of the mob, but Sokolov has put out a request for buff suggestions, so we should perhaps give him some. So as I see it, one of the things we could start on here is getting the vast swath of boghoppers, the core of FS into some semblance of shape. They are affixed with constant, boring Leap 1-3 paths that restrict their options and keep them in a relatively uninteresting state. Leap should still be a thing, of course, but wherever it seems reasonable I am going to try to just pick a level for it and move it onto the base of the rune, leaving more options for the upgrade paths. Five runes seems like a good place to start. Darkmarsh Outlaw Of course I am going to start with one where the upgrade paths are going to keep a couple of levels of leap. He is expensive, too expensive right now to be effective. He also is cursed with a double helping of mobility abilities as he has both Phantom Dash and Leap. Phantom Dash is cool and all, but I think that is better served as an option on a tree. So. Changes: Upgrade Path 1: Leap 2 (default), Leap 3, Phantom Dash This keeps his costs down, while still maintaining Upgrade Path 1's focus on movement. It also shaves 8 points off his base. Leaving him at a default rate of 75, or 79 if you want increased mobility. I think that is much more reasonable than his current cost. Marsh Warden Another low hanging fruit. I don't think you even really need to change that much about him to bring him in line. Essentially he is trying to do too much on his base paths right now, and just dropping Arrowshot entirely will make it so he is much more playable, particularly in theme bgs. Boghopper Paladin This one is a theme enabler for too many themes at once. I would like to fix that. The first part of that is getting rid of Heal Self. Upgrade Path 1: Race Charged (default), Attack Charged 1, Abuse Charged 2 Upgrade Path 2: Protective (default), Water Front, Hold the Line Base: Amphibious, Attack: Physical: Leap 2, Amphibious, Blessed, Charged Heal Damage from 8 to 10. His base cost goes up by 4 because of damage. Cost with abilities will range from 70 (with the default) up to 72 if you take Water Front or Hold the Line. Boghopper Shaman's stats are horrible for his cost, and according to the old balance equation he is about 12 points overpriced. Just fixing this and pouring the adjustement back into improved everything would be awesome. Boghopper Spitter also appears to have a somewhat large manual cost modifier. Fix plz. We can also change around paths a bit. Move Poison Eater into Upgrade 1, Give him Leap 3 for Base. (He looks like a leaper!) Also he looks a bit like a sneaky sort, so maybe some sort of hidden ability? Damage from 9 to 11 Upgrade Path 1: Poison Eater (Base), Still Life, Hit and Run Base Upgrades: Amphibious, Attack: Poison, Leap: 3 These changes will still leave it a bit overcosted, but it would be closer to what it shoud be. Thoughts?
I made a darkmarsh thread, looking at darkmarsh upgrades / changes . Shaman was 'healing too much for it's cost and was nerf'
It's highest cost is 8 isn't it. I agree leap 1 removed. 3 nora for extra space. I like it. Works i suppose.
Actually I reran my calculations and Boghopper Spitter and Shaman are both actually definitely in line with what his ability costs are supposed to be. They are a few points overcosted, but that could be accounted for by changes in the formula and such. So just ignore those parts for now. I will fix up some of the other hoppers later.
Neuromancer Reduce Psychic Magnetism noracost from base 8 to 6 Reduce Mindwhipe Aura noracost from 7/12 to 5/9 Firk Botanist Range from 3-6 to 4-6 Remove Cooperation from Upgrade B Add Amplify: Poison to Upgrade B Firk Mindshredder Reduce Psychic Ping noracost from 15/20/25 to 11/15/20. Destealths when it procs.
Darkmarsh Outlaw is overpriced based on stats (compared to others of similar stats), so they should just lower his base price by 4-6, there's no particular need to alter abilities in order to accomodate a lower price value. I think Marsh Warden is fine as is. Arrowshot helps set up for traps (able to provide pressure from a distance to thus force the enemy to close in), and works with Flanking. I don't agree with these specific suggestions, but I agree with the general thought that Paladin is focused on too many themes. Neuromancer is I think slightly above-cost on stats, same as Outlaw. Reducing Mindwipe Aura's cost is not a good idea. Psychic Magnetism being cheaper by 2 might be fine though. Firk Botonist does not have Coordination, but rather Cooperation. Coordination would actually be pretty awesome. In fact, if they ditched Cooperation for Coordination and left it otherwise as is, I would so run that rune. Otherwise, yes, 4-6 RNG. Don't care for Amp Poison, but not a big deal to me. Mindshredder doesn't need buffs. Leap costs are fine. You don't get the extra AP storage of SPD and you need to worry about Distract, but you can disengage and it helps cross many impassible barriers without needing to get Flight. Also, gratuitous @Sokolov Also, plz buff Turtle Rider. Boghopper Rider should not be 50 Nora (probably 40 at most). As I've said before, Dreadwing Potion should probably be 18-20 Nora, rather than 25. Invoke Mire still seems slightly too expensive, and should proBably be 15-16 Nora rather than 20. Still would love to see +1 SPD or Swoop on base of Muck Dragon (thanks again for buffing Fentek Servant's SPD). Rapid Attack is horrible, and should be buffed. Perhaps something along the lines of: 40/50/60% per rank, and CD of 2 or 3. No extra AP cost. Or at least make it cheaper on the Nora. It's competing with the likes of Multi-attack or Execute, which tend to easily do more damage even if only looking at one turn. Speaking of Rapid Attack. Death Lily is almost completely useless, and based on stats should actually probably cost ~6 less nora than it does anyway (based on SPD and DMG compared to other 4 RNG champs). Since it's no longer the "all attacks cost 1 AP" monster that it once was, I'd recommend raising it's DMG by 3-4 and reducing base cost by 3, as well as removing Unequippable. Would end up with similar cost but reasonable stats for cost and the ability to use Equips, which should help justify the use of Rapid Attack above and beyond Dragging Attack (as well as free up that upgrade to have more options.
Boghopper elite... holy crap, that guy used to be one of the best beaters in the game at his release. Now he is costly with average stats and no real impact. Something like reflexes/counter attack might help him (instead of opportunistic assault + block). He is kind of ingorable right now. Maybe some kind of a damage buff could help him as well.
I'm liking the idea flow in this thread! keep it going guys! Boghopper Blackhand: Never was cool. Maybe give him a new kit to be a beater with merciful, or rearrange his abilities and give him No Khan Do to work with. Agreed on Neuromancer, use to be the best range in FS, now is crap I would love to see some changes to The Thing, and also to Forglar Paladin(he use to have Smite Unholy) and I would love to see Darkmarsh and "Lightmarsh" separated in abilities and what not. That way "Lightmarsh" has more healing/peaceful solutions to fighting, and more paladins/priest, while darkmarsh is brute and has more rogues and brutes.
True, but as far as the stated goal of getting him to around 79-ish nora goes... reducing his cost by 5 on account of stats would get him to 82 with Leap 3 and Multi or Flanking, 79 with Surge, and as low as 72 with Leap 1 and Surge. below the 75 midrange doubto'buddha mentioned. Point being that 52 nora for 12/6/1/2/51 seems a bit on the high side, even considering the relatively high DEF (well, for FS). So fix that first, then look at where to trim the fat elsewhere if needed, whether that be choosing between Leap/Phantom Dash in the same upgrade slot, or whatever seems to fit. Basically, the way I'm looking at it, if a champion seems to need buffs (or nerfs for that matter) first look at whether or not the base cost seems to properly fit the stats. If it's too high, reduce that, then look at abilities. If it's too low (extremely unlikely) then it's clear to be abilities, but it might be worth raising it if the ability issue is solved (otherwise you risk creating an over-efficient rune via over-buffing). Now, maybe my estimate of it being too high by 4-6 is off (I don't know your formula I just make guesses based on [multiple] comparisons), maybe it's only high by 3-4 or something, but that's still what I'd personally look at first, before worrying about ability fat. But again that's just how I'm approaching it. Obviously, do whatever, and we'll either sing your praises or throw you under the bus as befits the whimsy of the consumer. I'm just providing requested feedback, and by no means want to tell you how to do your job.
I remembered when Outlaw first came out, he had surge 2, mutli and some other crazy abilities, but even then, he was suppose to be a squishy bruiser. His class is Rogue/Knight and his lore is suppose to be almost like a protector but also a bully. Should we redo some of his kit to reflect his image? or should we stick with the classic kit, and make him more squishy. More of a high dmg leap around the battle and do lots of chaos type of guy?
honestly i think we should concentrate on a screwed up theme like jellebriums or buff snaptooths instead of worrying about boghoppers.
Right now Sokolov said the next theme is Salaman Prof. This is just a thread to get ideas flowing, which harms no one. Just keep up the good folow gents
Yeah, this is in his response to his request for easy to implement buffs. Theme reworks are being manged by by @Skullferno in the appropriate threads.
