After taking a lot of time to play a lot of FW melee champs, I'm making this tier list to have a place to talk about them, get opinions, and give mine. It will work on a similar curve to my FF tier list in General Discussion. Unlike that list, where the number of decks is potentially infinite, there is a finite number of FW runes, so I can list all of them. First, what do I define as a "beater"? Almost any melee champion qualifies, but I am going to put two general restrictions on what I will talk about when talking about a beater: it should be a melee champion that intends to, and is able to, deal damage with its melee attack; it can, conversely, also take some damage. Both of these things will factor into its final tier, but I will note for each champion if it excels in an area by tagging it with [Utility +/-], [Durability +/-], or [Damage +/-]. Every tag will be in relation to cost. I will also note recommended upgrades with U1: {upgrade}/U2: {upgrade}. And second, here are the tiers (they assume junk/goodstuff, and can shift depending on themes): Tier 1 -- This champion is excellent. It is a safe 1x include in any generic deck -- a great default choice. If a tier 1 beater doesn't make it in a deck, it's because that slot is already filled with another tier 1 beater (or, heresy, the deck already has enough beaters). May be a 2x include. Tier 1.5 -- This champ is strong and viable. In lieu of owning a tier 1 champ, a tier 1.5 can substitute admirably. It may be slightly weaker than another option, or may not be the best choice for the meta-game or for some decks, but these are competitive. Some may in fact be more appropriate than a tier 1 beater, if the t1.5 champion provides something that a deck specifically needs. Will likely never be more than a 1x include. Tier 2 -- This champ is alright. One or more notable weaknesses. A deck may suffer slightly in competition if it depends upon tier 2 beaters as its front line. These champions may be exceptional at something, but should generally have a tier 1 champion played in their place unless there is a good and particular reason otherwise. Meta-game shifts may move these champs up to a functional tier 1.5. Tier 3+ -- This champ is not good. Often either unable to deal damage or unable to take it, these champs are beaters in the sense that they aren't good at anything else, and so running into an ignoble melee death is the best they can hope for. Probably don't run these champions. Tier 1 Afflicted Corpse // [Utility +], [Durability +] // U1: Aura 1, U2: Death Nova Coragh Two-Heads // [Utility +], [Durability +] Essence Devourer // [Durability +], [Damage ++] // U1: Horrific Aura, __ Skeletal Excavator // [Utility +], [Damage -] Utterdark Leviathan // [Durability +] // U1: Vaporize, U2: Hunter: Soultapped Tier 1.5 Archfiend // __, U2: Frightful Blows Arroyo Riftlord // [Utility +] Arroyo Riftwalker // U1: Escalating Rage, __ Arroyo Shadestriker // [Utility -], [Damage +] Blackblade Baron // [Utility +] Bloodtracker // [Utility +] // __, U2: Life Siphon Bone Elemental // [Damage -] Boneshredder // [Utility +], [Damage -] Brightmoon Lich // [Utility +], [Damage +], [Durability - ] // U1: Punish, __ Broken Bones // [Durability +] Contained Thrall // [Utility +] Corpse Golem Corrupted Guardian // [Durability +] // U1: Disease Aura, U2: Calcify Crawling Corpse // [Utility +] Crypt Guardian // [Damage +] Defiler Knight Elsari Swordmage // [Utility +] Ethereal Soldier // [Utility +], [Durability +] // __, U2: Hex Executioner // [Damage +] Fallen Draksar // [Utility +] // U1: Regen 1, __ Fleshblight Zombie // [Utility -], [Durability +], [Damage +] // U1: Rabid 1, U2: Hunter: Diseased Inkblight Witch // [Utility +] // U1: Shroud, __ Mairdreth of the Rot // [Durability -], [Damage +] // U1: Rabid 1, U2: Disease Aura Mute Stalker // [Damage +] Obsidian Venger // [Damage +] Polluted Martyr // [Utility -] Risen Moga // [Utility +], [Durability -] // __, U2: Disease Breath 1 Risen Yeti // [Utility +] // U1: Enrage, U2: Frightful Aura 3 Skeletal Lerper // [Damage +] // U1: Shadowspawn, __ Skeletal Reaper // U1: Render, U2: Siphoning Aura Stitched Mirrorskin // [Durability +], [Damage -] // U1: Deflect, __ Stitched Skeleform // [Damage +] // __, U2: Unleash Stitched Tyrant // [Durability +] // __, U2: Hunter: Small Utterdark Shadecaster // [Utility +], [Durability +] // U1: Portal Dancer, __ Utterdark Voidhowler // [Durability -] // U1: Leap, U2: Rabid 1 Vothsair Monstrosity // [Durability +] // __, U2: Hunter: Small Wailing Banshee // [Utility +] // U1: Life Siphon, U2: Vaporize Wandering Zombie // [Durability +] // U1: Resistance: Physical 3, U2: Rabid 1 Zombie Behemoth // [Durability +] // U1: Knockback 3, U2: Exertion 1 Tier 2 Abomination // [Damage +] Angel of Death // __, U2: Hunter: Walker Animated Blade // [Utility +], [Durability -] Anthropomancer // [Utility +], [Durability -] Arctic Beast // [Damage +], [Durability -] //U1: Gore, __ Aspect of Death // [Utility +], [Durability -] Bladed Corpse // [Utility +], [Damage +], [Durability -] // __, U2: Rend 2 Blood Phoenix // [Utility +], [Damage -] // U1: Dark Favor, __ Blood Fiend // [Utility -] Bloodbinder Count // [Utility +] Bloodworm // [Durability -] Bone Slave Boneguard Infantry // __, U2: Block 1 Bonemauler // [Durability -] Bonewing // [Utility +], [Durability +], [Damage -] Cackling Witch // [Utility +] Carrion Colossus Collection of Souls // [Utility +] Coven Claw // [Utility +], [Durability -] Croma Extinguisher // [Utility +] // __, U2: Shatter Dark Enchantress // [Utility +], [Damage -] Dark Familiar // [Utility -] Dark Knight // [Damage -] Dark Seductress // [Utility +] // U1: Domain: DMZ, U2: Fascinate Deadwood Strider Demon Lich // [Utility +], [Durability -], [Damage -] Demonvein Vampyre // [Durability -] Draco-Lich // [Damage -] Elder Vampyre Elsari Mason // [Utility +], [Durability -], [Damage -] Elsari Siren // [Durability -] Elsarin Reaper // [Utility +] Experimental Warspirit // [Utility +] Fallen Hero // [Durability +] // U1: Hunter: Meek, __ Festering Corpse // [Durability +] Forsaken Doombringer // [Utility +], [Damage -] General Korsien // [Durability +], [Damage -] // U1: Charge 3, U2: Resist Magic 1 Hoarfrost Dragon Infected Zombie // [Durability -] Lich's Servitor Lichling // [Durability -] Lost Queen // [Utility +], [Durability -] Mindflayer Queen // [Durability +], [Damage -] Moragen the Lost // [Utility +] Necrotaur Nether Wraith // [Utility +] Putrid Creeper // [Durability ++] // __, U2: Consume Ravenwraith // [Durability +] Rotmaw Creeper // [Utility +] Seeker of Blood // [Utility +], [Damage -] Skeletal Berserker // [Utility -], [Damage +] // U1: Berserker 1, U2: Blood Frenzy 1 Skeletal Raider // [Damage -] Soul Collector // [Utility +], [Damage -] Soul Siren // [Utility +], [Damage -] // __, U2: Pull Spectral Emissary Stitched Blackguard Stitched Concealer // [Utility -], [Damage +] // __, U2: Cloak 1 Stitched Dreameater // [Utility +] Stitched First // [Utility +], [Durability -] // U1: Transfer Life, __ Stitched Mangler // [Durability -] Stitched Merged // [Damage -] Stitched Mesmer // [Utility +], [Durability -] Tomb Sentinel Tortun Bokor Twilight Creeper // [Utility +] // __, U2: Binding Chains Undead Crone Utterdark Planeshift // [Utility +] // U1: Teleport 1, __ Utterdark Soulrender Utterdark Specter // [Utility +] // __, U2: Insubstantiate Umbral Wulf Vampyre // [Damage -] Wretched Witch // [Utility +], [Damage -] Tier 3+ Boghopper Zombie // [Durability -], [Damage -] Bonecrusher // [Utility +], [Durability -] Carrionling // [Utility -], [Durability -], [Damage -] Chattering Maw // [Durability -], [Damage -] Decayed Mercenary // [Durability -], [Damage -] Ghoul // [Durability -], [Damage -] Grekin // [Damage -] Revenant // [Durability -], [Damage -] Shadestalker // [Damage -] Skeezick Boneblade Stitchling // [Durability -], [Damage +] // __, U2: Multiattack 1 Note: I may be re-evaluating the tagging system later. I feel that I am over-assigning Utility +, and under-assigning Durability -. Need to think about it.
Is Moga a beater? I usually have them just behind my front line and don't melee that often with them. I'd put Skeletal Reaper in t1 myself, maybe Shadecaster and Banshee too.
I'd count him as a beater -- but a weird one, implied by Utility + and Durability -. I am not completely convinced on t1 status for this guy yet. T1.5, absolutely, at least. You got any arguments why he makes for a consistent tier 1? And how do you feel about how he compares to Bloodtracker? Shadecaster I could see, Banshee I just could not. Shadecaster is next up in the testing queue. Arguments for both? Edit: Speaking of, what upgrades do you run on those champions?
I think Render really tips the balance between the two, Bloodtracker is just a bit too expensive with Melee Specialist. Banshee is just an awesome combination of abilities. The Fascinate and Deafening Aura combo makes her tricky to play around and is very unforgiving to positioning errors. Vaporize means you can position her aggressively and Life Siphon lets her heal up if your opponent is unable to one round her, i always run those upgrades. When i played Vampyres she was regularly carrying the whole deck. Shadecaster solidified itself as one of the best early game champs for me when I was playing it in Arroyo. The mix of mobility from Teleport and Pounce(Swoop at the time) and the durability from Portal Dancer and Portal Siphon makes them perfect for holding mid font in those early skirmishes or contesting your opponent's side fonts. I guess unlike the t1 champs they don't carry so well into the late game. I've never tried the other upgrades but they all seem pretty viable. I couldn't see Inkblight or Wretched Witch anywhere on your list, Contained Thrall should probably be 1.5 at least imo.
I think ghoul can be a solid champion. Nobody has really explored it, but disease amp has all the tools to be a real deck after the equipment changes they got in the winter. I played one game with it and won vs Markoth back when they came out, but a lot of that win had to do with a bug that made all his single-target spells redirect onto my warded champ (i think it was coragh).
shadecaster is an epic champion and early deploy, i hate facing it, great survivability, it WILL kill you 1v1 lol. i wish he was a zombie.
Melee Spec? I'd think running him with Empowered, or maybe Zeal. Leaves them at 6 nora different. That's because I don't own those runes, and I was building this by going through my collection >.>. I'll put them on there. Probably 1.5 for Inkblight, 2 for Wretched Witch. Thanks for the catch. That build is the one that was starting to look good to me. I was undervaluing it for a while because I was looking at Portal Walker instead, but I'd agree that Dancer/Pounce seems like a solid version for 66 nora. It's next on the testing list. Yeah, those seem like the best ones to take. I just have trouble with a 72 nora champion that seems bent on that much disruption without absorbing either a lot of opposing AP or HP, because 72 nora seems like a lot. I'll give her a whirl, I guess. Vaporize is a kind of indirect effect as opposed to a direct one -- those are more complicated to value. This is an interesting point that I hadn't considered, could you elaborate some more? What are you envisioning as "late game"? What makes a champion good or bad there? Have not tested it yet, or ever really. Again, a champion with indirect rather than direct damage mitigation, which gives me pause. What build do you run on him? I was considering adding notes to the list of with which champions I have either little or extensive experience, but decided against it; Contained Thrall would have been on the lower end of that. If you have a sample list to share, that would make for a great thread. Not sure there was ever a decent version of Disease Amp out there, but you're right, Helm has it now. Sounds like that bug may have had a lot to do with you winning, to be honest, but if you have a use for Ghoul, it could move up from crap tier.
I've only had one game's experience playing with it so far, but I am considering moving Corrupted Guardian up to t1, using Aura/Calcify. The champion just seems exceptional for its cost -- solid damage output with spot Ancient Corruption activations plus Aura, good opening mobility because he can run as 8 SPD out of the gate, and wonderfully durable with a mix of Tough, Unstoppable, Calcify, a bit of self-healing, and a high base HP amount. He runs nearly 80 nora, but dang if he isn't an all-round beater.
Oh yeah i run him with Empowered but the damage from Scythe Whirl won't be nearly as high as Skeletal Reaper's without some kind of damage buff. Scaling over the duration game is pretty much my goal with every bg, wether it's by creating an impassable wall of meat or getting Serkan to 20+ dmg I always make sure my decks have some kind of 'building' effect which gets stronger as the game goes on. Ofcourse the tempo of a game can affect this, getting rushed by an aggressive bg generally rules out any chance of reaching this stage even if the game does go on for a long duration. Even though I think Shadcaster would be a perfectly useful champion later on in the game I'd much rather deploy something like Coragh that can provide good value for it's cost and have a good immediate effect on the game. Currently he is benched as I'm still trying to test out the new Voth some more but I like the NKD/ZA build although Taking Stun is very tempting. I'm not a huge fan of NKD myself but it creates a problem for your opponent to deal with, often delaying them or preventing them from playing aggressively which is something I find invaluable in FW, especially early on in the game.
I dunno, I don't expect to get much more than 2 or 3 damage from Render, and that only puts Reaper a point or two above Bloodtracker. At 1 enemy DEF, the two are even; at 0 enemy DEF, Bloodtracker is advantaged. Do you really get that much more damage from Render on a consistent basis? Hm, ok. I don't usually view deck construction and attrition goals in quite the same way, but this makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. So would you just take Stun if you weren't running it in Zombies? Do you think it has a place outside of that theme? I do like the strategic shift you imply, namely that you can use indirect durability through things like Vaporize, NKD, and the like to slow the opponent down (without necessarily waging a resource war) as a way of setting up the rest of the deck. I have been trying to just slim down my champ lineup and be careful with tempo as a way of handling things like Tomb, Statue, and Bird, but maybe it would be possible to finesse the tempo issue with champs like Contained Thrall and Wailing Banshee. It is a bit draw dependent, I guess. A more general question, maybe for its own thread, but what are your (and anyone else's) opinions about the FW junk/meta decks right now? What's viable, what isn't? Are there certain ways those decks will look, or ways they won't? How good is playing something other than attrition?
Yo kal you forgot obsidian vengers. I'm adding i reckon they should be T1 too. Huge damage speed and difficult to kill
Yeah, realized that I left off a fair number of champions, especially higher rarity, because I was basing the original list on champions that I owned, rather than checking the checklist. I am adding them as I write this. Not sold on Venger at t1 at all. Would need to test it, at the very least.
Yep, only reason i really have ZA is because it often end up right in the middle of the fight so can catch a lot of friendly fire. Outside of zombies there are probably better options, if i draw a Wandering Zombie early then usually all my delaying needs are fulfilled so this guy is really a backup.
Added the following champs: Seeker of Blood, Utterdark Leviathan, Blackblade Baron, Coven Claw, Experimental Warspirit, Inkblight Witch, Magnus the Fallen, Vothsair Monstrosity, Angel of Death.
I feel that, for 70+ nora, Defiant and standard HP doesn't cut it. There is so little physical damage around that an opponent can fairly easily just order their one physical attack first and then go in with the alt damage. Rock Eater, maybe, but crappy Vaporize, no. I've cut down to Resist 1 on Wandering Zombies because of how common non-Physical is even on melee attacks at this point. Edit: Have you had different experiences with him?
totally agree, tier 1. i have insane problems facing them in battle. i came here to post them once i had found the name of the champion. i recognised their name when you had typed it... im sure they have escalating rage and oblivion shield.
That is them. Macca was making a good case to me in Discord for them, and I am sold on at least t1.5, though t1 might be harder. Escalating Rage does seem like an incredible ability, and they even come with some alt-range. Adding champions... Edit: Added: Wretched Witch, Arroyo Riftwalker, Defiler Knight, Croma Extinguisher, Bloodbinder Count, Bonewing, Elder Vampyre, Forsaken Doombringer, Umbral Wulf
