Game Development Startup Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrCharles, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I tried it, and it does run, but so slow that it wasn't much fun.

    Despite not being a fan of the tabletop style I can see that it does have a lot of potential, so i'll try again when i get a new computer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  2. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    what was the average game time? old pox was about 30-60 minutes, comparable to new pox's 5-15
     
  3. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    please stop, you're embarrasing yourself and your image as an old good player.
     
  4. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    stating a legit question? curious of what the average game time of his game is, got a problem with that?

    i mean I take a lot of pot shots at the expense of the developers ignoring pox, but this wasn't one of those times.
     
  5. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    Nah man, he gets all defensive when you say anything negative about Pox. You saying that games only go between 5-15 minutes is an insult apparently to him...
    although I have to highly agree with you that game times have been DRASTICALLY shortened since it was sony-fied.
    • Game dumbed down
    • Turn timer lowered
    • Attack/defense stats were put on a kindergarten level
    • supposedly the number of abilities were lowered per champ
    • maps shoved the shrines closer and fonts moved to offset speed advantages
    All of this equates to faster games whether it be good or bad
     
  6. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    At least he is a good player... Quit being so dang defensive. One would think you have stock in DOG...
     
  7. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    my longest game pre sony was 3 and a half hours against an sp player i've long since forgotten who, but man that game was back and forth non stop, I eventually lost =/

    could not over come their old ability to come off cd and redploy so frigging quickly(uber low cost moga), on the map design of that particular map, push him back to his shrine and then 9 moga's would come off cd and we'd be back to fighting we each had thousands of nora and were just playing what came off cd by the end of it, which he had the edge in
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  8. MrCharles

    MrCharles The King of Potatoes

    Haha I recall playing a game much like this along time ago. Thinking back I couldn't recall how it was possible for them to Spam Moga so damn fast that no matter how many of them I mowed through they just kept piling up in front of me until eventually I lost. I think that may even have been my first couple month ragequit from the game.
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's been awhile since I ran the numbers pre-turn timer change average game time was around 22-25 minutes, and it's more around 15-18 these days, these are just ballpark numbers as I don't remember the exact numbers but I was certainly surprised there wasn't more of a difference.

    There were certainly games that ran a long long time back then, but I think the nature of having long games on the client makes them feel like they happen more back then because there were simply more players (so there was almost always a game going long on the game list).

    Certainly, the biggest factor was the turn timer, but the relationship with other factors is a lot more complex.

    For example, making attack calculations easier might seem like it always reduces game time... but consider 2 players where one player is better at calculating DMG than the other - a more "complicated" DMG system like the old one with the (ATK-DEF)/100*DMG (or whatever it was) would mean the better player has a significant advantage which would likely decrease game length by amplifying the advantage he has from being better.

    The map changes (combined with the decreased SPD on champions) are a pretty complex thing as well, while removal of some maps like Savage Tundra and Forglar Swamp certainly decreases game time because they were huge (and almost universally hated), other map changes decreased 1st player win rates and allowed for more consistently even games and saw their game lengths increase, so it's hard to say what the overall impact has been.

    The introduction of the Avatars was another big factor that increased game length.

    It's also likely that games were longer in the past when more players were able to get games with players of their own skill level (while games may tend to be shorter now because fewer players means it is harder to find games with someone more equal to you).

    Another factor that likely decreased game length is the nerfing of build up decks over the years. If there's one thing that's been consistent feedback in Pox, is that people hate seeing lots of champions or big numbers - I'd be willing to bet those are the two types of things that been nerfed the most (both before I was in charge and after I was in charge).

    Some more recent changes should have also impacted game length in an upwards manner:
    • increased CD of many alt-range abilities
    • general decrease of DMG output
    • increased cost of champions, particularly RNG
    • Scry change (which used to put everyone's shrines at mid health, facilitating shorter gam
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  10. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    1. i dont have stocks in DOG. i like pox. you can find tons of posts where i say my how pox should be corrected and upgraded, but i do not continuously open threads/comment with " its all Bane Shift". i can understand one can get tired of waiting/bugged client/ not new content, but then say it and go away. nobody is holding you here. as i said once, its like we are in a cinema, you dont like the movie, say its Bane Shift and go away. its your right. but then don't come in every 10 mins shouting how this movie is Bane Shift, because if we decide to stay it means we are okay. it gets pretty annoying.
    2. game changed from the past for sure, but if its for the best or not, its quite subjective. still most games are 30+ mins so surely this game is one of the last defences vs the 5mins hearthstone stuff. probably there is this idea that games are shorter because few people are up so you can get matched vs an a lot better player or a lot worst player, so in that case the match ends pretty quickly. but on same level matches, still there is normally 30+mins games. play vs kokon and its always 50+mins. my longest game recently its 1hr46mins.
    3. my accuse of ashaming yourself wasn't about the content of your posts, that is partly right, but about the constant " we are all going to die, pox is a complete Bane Shift in all aspects" pessimism that is not what you expect from a legendary old player like you. expecially from a player that stopped playing long ago. this is not useful for new players, nor for older players, nor for you. if you got tired, there are plenty of good games out there. please respect the people that decided to stay here and play, and would like to do it without having to read every week the same complains.
     
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  11. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    comical.

    first off, you running in and shouting about my complaints of the game in completely unrelated threads and posts as a book end to everyone of my posts is no different than the actions you accuse me of and will likely derail this topic in the direction you claim to not wish to to talk about.

    second you are free to ignore the devs treatment of the game to you hearts content, you are free to pretend nothing is changing, you are free to look at all the warning signs and not care, but you are not some overlord that gets to state what the rest of us can discuss and talk about, and if the majority agree with you then my topics will die as all things due when nobody agrees with a thought, that's how free speech works.

    I don't mean this as any slight against you but at this point to me you seem like a climate change denier but for pox's future, all the evidence is their but you choose to ignore it, just because pox is dieing and the devs are ignoring it doesn't mean we can't enjoy what time pox has left nor does it mean things can't change in the future, but ignoring what's going on will not help it, and certainly won't change the course.

    finnally for your opinion I don't really mind the shorter games of current pox I thnk they are fine, I just wanted to know where his game fell between the two opposite ends of the spectrum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
    MrCharles likes this.
  12. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    hmmmm.....I think you left out the BIGGEST reason games are shorter then in the past, and compared to what was mentioned I think it's had the biggest effect by far.

    most maps in ranked play are now are focused around maps with center fonts, where in the past you had large maps like the st cliffes map, etc that could cause the game to stall into large build ups before the time where things like swap, harpoon, gale, etc existed to end such stalls.

    These battles would often end in MASS aoe spam to severely injure an opposing force before a large scale alpha strike, but on a occasion these tactics would be positioned against to minimize the damage, or against armies like sp, or fw tha could generate enough nora to compensate the loses while winning through attrition like unholy tomb+festering wounds.

    to me the biggest factor for shortening games was maps by far.
     
    MrCharles likes this.
  13. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    no offence taken or give, i have high respect for you as one of the oldest players here, former council member etc... but from your recent posts, the only thing that comes out is that you are outraged by this game and only interested in beating an ill horse. I mean, I never denied pox isnt in good state. I know it might never recover from this situation. but my opinion is that an ill Poxnora is better than no Poxnora, so as long as the server is running, i'll play and try to make people play and be interested in the game. You are free to do whatever you want, but nobody forces you here, and its annoying to listen to the same complaints everytime. Free speech allows you to complain about the game, as it allows me to complain about you.
    also, i didnt open up anything. i made an annoyed comment about your behaviour, short and clear mostly to you, but i didnt open any discussion. your and bondman with that replay, opened the discussion.
    My comment was a bit harsh maybe, but your question sounded a lot like another useless complain...
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I mentioned map changes in general moving away from larger maps as the move away from build up games, I think that basically covered this aspect. There are also still a number of maps without center fonts depending on the map rotation.

    In general tho, those games do still exist - for example, Baller's recent runs with Voil were basically this as often he'd have what seemed like every last voil out before actually engaging with Harpoon etc. And Swap and Gale are still staples of the ST alpha strike.

    Either way tho, you are still wrong about game lengths of old and now, they weren't and aren't as different as you claim.

    TinyDragon's last 20 games average out to 20.4 minutes, as an example.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  15. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    Could you please clarify what these tools are.
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Tools are things are that strictly speaking not necessary for the game to function, but make it easier to create and maintain.

    So a visual interface for adding/editing cards and other content.

    A tool to manage users (add/remove/reset password, give rewards etc.).

    Map builder.

    That kind of thing.
     
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  17. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    man it was a joke about forgetting the password... you said you got an error on the login, i joked on that. sry if it was offensive. and no, i never say pox is fine. i always say pox has a ton of problems. but its still playable and enjoyable with a bit of patience. denying that its subjective, and continously repeating same complains, its annoying and a bit disrespectful to who decided to stay. just that. peace and love
     

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