going all in

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by calisk, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    So the objective in pox is to destroy enemy shrines, their is no other purpose you can kill 100 champions it doesn't leave you any closer to winning if your shrine is dead.

    I've noticed since coming back that most people only seem to care about killing champs, I'll be watching opposing players straight up ignore shrine kills to kill a few more champs.

    Anyway to me pox is a game of poker, sometimes it's chess but more often you are doing your best to hide your motives, and bluff what's really up your sleeve, and in every game of pox comes a moment where you need to go all in and see if you had a better hand then your opponent, maybe he has a spell counter, or maybe you'll catch him in your back fire trap, but ultimately it comes down to reading the situation and your opponent and going for the win.

    Anyway I suggest for any new player learning pox, learn that killing champs are great but popping that shrine is your real objective, put pressure on it and force your opponent to do things he doesn't want to do.
    PurpleTop, Karmavore, Sirius and 2 others like this.
  2. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns. -Sun Tzu
    TeaNinja, TeaScholar, Sunutsu and 6 others like this.
  3. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Getting to that shrine is the hard part (unless you're opponent is a poor player strategically). That's the reason I have initiative champions in my bg. Sometimes your primary force is occupied, so having a quick one pop on the opposition makes all the difference.
    Xiape likes this.
  4. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    I prefer to kill champions until my opponent realizes he has lost.
    TeaScholar and undred like this.
  5. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    Anecdote time.
    I have had a ton of wins where I have looked like I was losing because I was down in Champions/Fonts/Nora and then destroyed the opposing shrine/avatar.

    A lot of the time my opponent would them pm me and call me cheesy for winning the game like that when I had really lost and should just have accepted it and surrender. Explaining to them that destroying the shrine is the win condition and that they messed up e letting me do that when I had "lost" woulds usually be futile at that point.
  6. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    the simplest way to push on the shrine is to have either large ap gain, or the superior range threat.

    in both cases your opponent needs to back up to avoid being power turned, by slowly moving up you can get in range of the shrine, once in that position you can begin to harass it and pick at it.

    the first attack you land on an opponents shrine is important though, it signals to the opponent that's what you are going for and from that moment on the game changes quite drastically and you'll notice the pace goes up.
    BroWatchThis likes this.
  7. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I win most of my games via shrine, quite often once I have the shrine in a check position, I will sacrifice quite a few units going for that check mate, no different then when I sacrifice pieces in chess to get the checkmate there.
  8. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Welcome back??
  9. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    This is usually what I do. 9 times out of 10 I win from the opponent surrendering.
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    then I suspect you've lost quite a few games that you could of won.
    PurpleTop and Sirius like this.
  11. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    Thanks but no.
    I just lurk the forum untill I manage to trade the rest of my runes away. From time to time I catch a post I feel like responding to.

    Once I have traded the last of the runes away my lurking/posting ends for good.
  12. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I should probably do the same... eventually. Good luck, ma'am.
  13. undred

    undred Devotee of the Blood Owl

    what about alternative winning conditions ? wouldn't the game benefit from different strategies ?
  14. BansheeX

    BansheeX I need me some PIE!

    I do not belief in treating addiction with moderation. For me it is all or nothing. If I trade my runes away i will not have the temptation to play again.
  15. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    The objective is to kill the Shrine, but you can't do it on the SP map for example (incidentally, I think it is the most ertarded map EEEVER). On the FW map for example it seems much easier though.

    The problem is as follows:
    The objective is to kill the Shrine, but due to the great variation in map size (there, I said it Gedden, map size, because only the playable part matters), Shrine distance and the super-strength of the Avatars (plus the 1 turn Shrine invulnerability), it becomes super hard to do it. To the point where you'd rather just kill the opposing champions and force a surrender. The game would be slightly skewed against the main objective anyway, but somehow and for some reason the devs made it waaaaay harder.
    Now, I realize it's not supposed to be easy, but by increasing the difficulty (and lack of consistency) of the task by so much, gameplay variety has to suffer. Everyone specializes on font contesting and killing champions and there is no other way to do it. Those few who Shrine rush are shunned and their decks are considered gimmicks. It has gotten to the point where people get mad at you for killing the Shrine, because it's so unnatural. Even though in reality, winning that way requires much more effort and is therefore arguably more praise worthy.
    More than that, because the game is so heavily built against it's own objective, you only ever see 'Shrine Rushing', if you even see that. But in reality, it would make sense to do it as an objective even without rushing it. Imagine a game long siege on the Shrine with some long ranged champions or some slippery melee ones. Imagine the play and counterplay.

    If map sizes and Shrine distances were made more consistent and Shrines/Avatars were toned down, then Shrine killing would become a more natural endeavor. Gradually, people would have to adapt to the new decktypes and actually learn to defend their Shrine, instead of getting mad when they're attacked. The game would be richer for it and a larger variety of people would enjoy it, in more ways.
    BONUS: Powerful effects that damage your Shrine would actually require thought and risk assessment. Currently, you can use as many Price of Victories as you damn well please on the SP map.

    How about fully utilizing the win condition that we already have, before exploring new ones? You can easily increase variety by fixing the one we have, which would add variety much in the same way as adding more win conditions, except it would be simpler and more elegant.

    Exactly. It should be up to prefference whether you do that or not. The game shouldn't push people into it by making other routes near unapproachable.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  16. MogaBait

    MogaBait I need me some PIE!

    Shrine kills are a big part of the game a lot of people seem to ignore. I remember when I started playing again a little over a year ago opponents (no these weren't complete noobs) would constantly leave themselves open for shrine kills (approximately a third of my wins were due to shrine kills). I wasn't even playing a rush bg, it was just the average draksar bg.

    Additionally, your opponent will usually rage afterwards -> provides even more incentive to target shrines.
  17. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    100 nora Imp, we miss you.
    Grumz likes this.
  18. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Oh no. Why are you posting if you left cold turkey, Banshee?
    Bad girl.
  19. Centuros

    Centuros Active Member

    What exactly do you suggest?
    I personally cannot think of any alternate win conditions that would be balanced, or require an overhaul of the game's mechanics.
  20. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    On topic:
    I win 99% of my matches with a shrine kill. I find it hilarious that people complain about it, though.

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