Ok, here's the deal, I would like some of you, guys, to help with some number on the matter. Here's the thing. When you compare the benefit-restriction ration of Fire and Ice themes in this game, you feel like one is simply not given enough love to be on par to the other just because of a single combo. To put it short, the synergy, and the benefits Ice themed bgs have by nature is better than fire. To begin with, we have ice generation. It's crazy. There are plenty of champs which create ice tarrain which goes from simple snow, debuff ice, to impending snow. There are a number of champs with trail Ice which not only provide snow terrain, but also automatically cancels fire terrain. But what I feel crazier here is the debuff and buff Ice has. Ice has 2 conditions; Frozen, and Chilled. One is your normal DoT effect. While the other is a super debuff by any standards. Now, and here we touch delicate matters. I noticed that there are a number of relics and spells for ice-related (not even themed, just put a snow cone in here, and that's all) bgs which boost non-champs indefinetily. This boosts go from ignoring ice debuffs, up to providing some crazy boosts. To put it short, when it comes to fire, the benefits are pretty much one-side. It all centers around "Eat fire", then stop counting. I was wondering if it was possible to provide a few more benefit by being sorrounded by flames?
Fire and ice work differently in this game. Fire is about 1. inhibiting healing( cauterize/ searing touch/fester/flame nova inhibit/cauterize), 2.punishing movement(fire wall/set ablaze/fiery ambush), 3. extreme aoe(fire volatility/cataclysm/fiery death), and 4. countering buffs (cleansing flame). Ice is about 1. debuffing stats (freeze/freezing aura-1 dmg -1 defense -1 speed), 2. slowing troop movement(ice -1 speed/frost nova slow -1 speed/slowing armor), and 3. stalling to allow ally heal regroup (crystallize/frigid barrier). Other differences include ice having access to 8 champs with amp frost while fire has access to 5 champs with amp fire. Fire has access to both amp and flame charge(imp familiar) while ice has only amp. Ice has access to 6-7 range ice champs while fire has access to melee champs which intensify fire effects ember wasp(fire volatility). Fire has access to loss of life effects(caliginous cauldron) while ice does not. Ice has access to a dot effect that increases dmg and grants bonus ap(savage exploit) while fire does not have this. Similarities include both fire and ice have access to acolyte equips: fire(tinderbox), ice(star catalog #16). Both fire and ice have access to an effect that counters each sides dmg extinguish(heals champs damaged by fire) and frostburn(heals champs damaged by frost). Over all I would say fire has access to far more counters than ice does(caliginous cauldron/cleansing flame). Fire has access to higher quality relics(orb of protection, head of osarius, fire ruby). Fire and ice both have access to great equips. You sir do not know your pox as you should. Quit playing UD for one second and try to get to know frost better instead of being such a UD fanboy. You seem jealous of frost and bias to fire.
Do you prefer walking over chilly ice (-1 SPD) or freaking 1000ºC lava (4 damage on entry before amplification at the least)? Not counting that Arctic doesn't buff the SPD as before, but Fire Eater heals 2 (without amp) for every step. As profhulk said, yes sir, I think you're biased.
Probably I'm biased, but... Easy Amp + Ranged Spam + AoE Vuln. is what make Ice module better than Fire module atm. It doesn't matter if fire can heal from lava: before you can even benefit from a potential 16 HP/turn heal (if you even have the chance to spend all your unit AP on movement), a full amped ice BG can easily dish out the same ammount of damage from range with a single shot. Also, Fire module have a lot of Ice Vuln. units, just to add some more "spice" to a one-sided match.
Checkmate. Oh, by the way, I haven´t seen anyone succesfully using Caligneous Cauldron since...I guess since the day the ol' Devs tested it before release.
I think the reason for that is Cain quit playing poxnora. Too bad we don't have a lot of Cains games recorded. You could watch the master of fire at work and get gud so we don't have to endure this silly thread. FYI just because you don't see cauldron being used doesen't mean people don't run it. I have run it many times to counter rd, fire eater, fire immunity, bubble of protection, and a few other buffs that prevent damage. Another reason u don't see cauldron being run is that population is so small only the win hungry meta players are left in a rune saturated game that has a bazillion choices for relics.
You know, when I expected for your response, I didn't thought it would be so...feeble? So, because there is no more people, Cauldron is scrapped in favour of other relics which seemingly do a better job at doing something than it does, imirite? And because something is rarely seen, it means that it is good, and meta? Dude, I think you are done.
Yea cauldron is scrapped because fire players would rather use head of osarius or orb of protection than something that is situational. When there are only 120 people average UD fire theme isn't that popular. UD meta players don't use it because its not fotm or traditional meta like osarius or orb. There aren't any really good players who run fire theme anymore because Cain is gone. I am trying to help you with your thread and your acting like a complete ****** bag. You think this is some pissing contest to prove your word is better than mine go ahead. Firking noob.
Their is a reason you haven't really ever seen fire bgs as top tier except when ember wasp was good, frost is still top tier for the most part. Profhulk seems to be forgetting a lot of the gimmicky nonsense frost has now, absolute zero, elemental burst, snow shroud, orb of frostfall on units, catalyst frost, not to mention like permanent -1 speed for opponents. Also all of the champs with like 5 or 6 range in frost bags, point being right now if tiny played frost against tiny using fire frost would dominate.
Yea well op makes fire sound like its hopeless against frost when thats not true. Sure ice has some new toys but its not the end of the world for fire.
Fire just isn't as competitive as frost, he simply stated that fire doesn't have as much synergy going for it as frost does and i agree completely. He is also right when it comes too the amount of champs in st that generate ice or snow compared to the amount of champs that generate lave for ud. I understand ud not getting tons of trail lava champs but the theme does indeed more synergy to be competitive.
The main difference between the themes is that Ice has a ton of intrinsically strong runes you'd want to run outside of ice decks. Fire has a bunch of stuff that's dreadful without the fire synergy. Also the proliferation of fire immunity and resistance is infuriating.
There is less fire immunity now. Fire has fe no high hp, catalyst frost + acolyte frost tanks. In a ice vs fire game, ice wins because of the ranged superiority and vulnerability to ice on many fire beaters/grunts.
Ice and fire? What about rock? Can IS get 1 defense for just sitting on a rock? "walks off grumbling" Pfft... element based pansies
Hey! I can do that too. Ice and fire? What about poison? Can FS get 1 defense for just sitting on a poison cloud? waaaaaa zealotry tantrum waaaaaaaaa...... Derail more threads with your silly zealot attitude.
this is a dumb thread. not because i disagree with the fact that frost amp BGs are better than Fire amps or that frost is a more complete theme than fire. But because overall in the grand scheme of the game they're simple 2 seperate themes. Looking at one and then *****ing "WHY DONT WE HAVE THAT" for the other is frankly just stupid and if the 2 didnt have a relation in nature then this wouldn't happen however that doesn't change the fact that this is more or less the same as if i were to compare Draksar and dwarves and go "DWARVES HAVE THIS WHY CAN'T DRAKSAR". You'd think that is ridiculous right? of course you would because you're comparing 2 seperate themes and *****ing that 1 is better than the other this is literally the exact same for fire and ice and should probably stop now. K Bye
