Ideas for potential buffs/nerfs to SP

Discussion in 'Shattered Peaks' started by devilsrath, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. devilsrath

    devilsrath I need me some PIE!

    Looking to get the SP community's opinions on potential buffs/nerfs for SP. Here are some I have been thinking about. Let me know what you think, and what you would prefer to see changed.


    New clause- for every real unit with g'hernbound on the field G'hern's cost 1 less nora to deploy.
    Main reason for this change is that g'herns are key to the theme and more expensive. A moga player will generally have 1-2 g'hern down at a time and focus on spamming moga down. G'herns are easy to target, and by taking them down you're crippling the moga. This change will help both in the early game, but more in the late game. And shouldn't mean that by killing the g'hern you win the game.

    Pummel. Currently- 1/2/3 is 8/12/16.

    Barrage. Currently- 1/2/3 is 6/12/15.

    Change to

    Barrage. 8/10/12.

    The benefit of upgrading the next level in these abilities is that you're paying for a reduced cooldown. You're lucky if you're able to get off more than 1 pummel/barrage after getting the first off, unless you've already won. And the idea behind the costing is that a ranged double attack is much safer to pull off than a melee double attack.

    Throw champion.
    CD to 0.

    Nora gain to 20.

    G'hern scarecrow. Add relocate self and battlemaster 2. Remove pawn.

    Rattleslag. As his desc suggests he's a ruthless hunter! but not in his current form.
    Skirmisher base
    Path 1- pounce 1/2/3
    Path 2- Manic/scour1/multiattack 1
    Spd to 6
    Hp to 53
    Dmg to 12
    ~60 nora base (before upgrades)

    G'hern Birthmother
    Spd to 6

    G'hern thrower
    Spd to 6

    Hyaenid Breaker.
    Change name to Hyaenid Tempest
    Remove Breaker electricity from base.
    Electric overload to base.

    Cyclonic fesh.
    Remove electric overload from base.
    Add Breaker: electricity to base.
    Spd to 6
    Dmg to 9
    Cost ~60.

    Hyaenid Feshwrangler.
    Spd to 6
    Pummel to base. Why? There's 2 of them, one of them is a massive fesh with a million teeth. The other is a master at taming that monster!

    Manual nora decrease to 70.

    Cyclops storm caller.
    Remove Revere: zeventrech from base.
    Dmg to 11.
    Path 2- Jolt 1/Electricity overload/Revere: zeventrech

    Lose unequippable
    +5 Manual nora increase
    (+2 from barrage change)

    Goliath fesh.
    Gains earthbound

    Voltaic slag.
    Replace sunder from upgrades, replace with improve range.
    Lose improve range from base.
    Lose dissipate.
    Gain lightning blast base.

    Voil transporter.
    Gain sentry 2 base
    (+3 nora sandbaggish)
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
    Tweek516 and Woffleet like this.
  2. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    The community will love seeing electric overload in play again im sure
    BurnPyro likes this.
  3. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    what about Overseer moga gives g'hern a rank of tough for each real moga with g'herbound?
  4. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    wait if throw champion cooldown 0 and g'hern thrower 6 spd then that's like OP.
  5. devilsrath

    devilsrath I need me some PIE!

    Constructive feedback would be better.

    Each rank of tough is 5 nora, so a 15 nora benefit at tough 3 with only 3 moga down. There's no way you'd have 15 real moga at any 1 time down in 1 game- 1 nora is 1 nora.

    It used to be 0 CD, 2 AP.

    3 AP was the fix, giving it 1 CD limits the usability.
  6. Pheezy

    Pheezy The King of Potatoes

    Can you please explain why you think Voltaic Slag needs all those nerfs? I think he is a great support unit. His 4-6 range is balanced with dissipate and since slags generally have low attacks (all are less than or equal to 10), debuffs such as sunder are required. I suppose improve range is just a added bonus, but in my opinion, thats the only thing that could/should be removed.

    I think hanging slags and rattle slags need buffs. Just a simple +1 speed bump would be enough imo, especially with 7-8 speed KF'ers running around.
  7. Raikan

    Raikan I need me some PIE!

    Re Sceian: My recollection is that unequippable was added to prevent equipping him with vicious harpoon. His threat range for a double tap (from barrage) after a pull is something like 9 spaces. Combined with instigator and initiative, it can create on-demand swarms. I think there was near universal opinion at the time that this was "broken." Also, with those manual cost increases, I'd consider offsetting some of them by moving some base abilities to upgrades or removing them entirely (bulwark: voil, barrage, lift).

    Re Voltaic Slag: I like ranged sunder, but it probably shouldn't be in the game. What are you imagining for the 2nd upgrade path? Replacing sunder for lightning blast?

    Hyaenid Breaker's upgrades seem ill-suited to his role as a ranged attacker (cackle, static aura) or unhelpful without breaker (resist electricity). Lightning skewer, lightning blast, lightning storm, grant electrical aura, grant vulnerability:electrical, etc. would all be more useful.

    Re Storm Caller: I kind of think revere: zeventrech shouldn't be base. It's even more situational than aid defense. Maybe it could be moved into an upgrade with lightning storm on base.
  8. RoachKing

    RoachKing The King of Potatoes

    For cyclonic fesh I would prefer to see absorb dropped, regen 2 added, range 5-6. I think there should be only one ranged electric overload champ and it should be cyclonic fesh.

    If voltaic slag has to be nerfed, than im okay with your change suggestion. Although I have to agree with pheezy, slags lack high dmg output and sunder really helps the theme out.

    I like the stormcaller buff but it really should be revere:zeventech moved to upgrades not aid:defense.

    G'hern scarecrow just got changed so I wouldn't bother with it right now. I've used it before and pawn really helps the survivability of the relic.

    I feel like breaker: electricity should be scrapped and replaced by a new ability, catalyst: electricity. I tested it out right now. The dmg from breaker:electricty counts as physical dmg yet it's affected by spark charge. There could be potential if its fixed to count as electricity.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  9. Nebron

    Nebron I need me some PIE!

    Are you trying to piss me off? Serious question.

    Rather than fixing the obvious problem with cyclonic fesh you want him to trade with breaker to create a unit that's still Bane Shift and a unit that's slightly better. Then you suggest taking unequipable off lance addy when I literally spent years making sure that corpse didn't take that away from him. Ghern b'mom is OP as hell right now in case none of you morons figured that out yet so if you make her 6 speed she's getting butchered with nerfs right afterwards. Thrower needs his ability back to 0 cd and nothing else, giving him 6 speed on top of that would be stupid. Ghern scarecrow still won't see play with that change (And i'm getting really tired of trying to explain to you that no matter what you do nobody will ever run scarecrow) and rater than taking the revere sandbag away for stormcaller you decide to take the only theme ability he has and move it to upgrades?
  10. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    Well as long as Hyaenid doesnt have Barrage. I think cyco fesh's barrage + elec overload is just too problematic.

    I think hyae breaker with Elec Overload deserves a chance... And Breaker Elec + Absorb seems legit though he lacks Resistance: Elec 3 if you ask me. I'd give these two a testrun before jumping into conclusions.

    And as for Stormcaller, I also agree and have many many times states that "aid defense" and "revere" should be moved to upgrades, while Lightning Storm to base... Since the champ mixes electricity and clops theme, he deserves a chance to be optimally good in both setups.

    Good stuff on Voltaic Slag, that guy just focuses too much on flavor by stacking abilities in a nonsensical manner - dissipate + sunder = ?. Nice one on making it more linear. However, why take out the racial stuff?? Improve range.

    For Sciean, I really don't think its good to remove Unequippable. Its there for a good reason. Free pulls. What needs to be adjusted is the cost of Warcry.

    And why Earthbound to Goliath Fesh? Its not like they need another nerf. Make it tanky = op because it gets Colossal, Slow it down = who's gonna use this guy? The combo is already there: V transporter + this guy. Why butcher a faction based combo when no one really use it anyway. There are tons of ways to deter Swallow Whole anyway: stun, para, immob, distract, almost anything that unstoppable stops really.

    Manual changes to Mika will be problematic. Not sure why, but manual adjustments just sounds wrong. Why not adjust the cost of Summon Fesh or Secure Font?
  11. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    I'll take some moga buffs, I guess, sure.
    PurpleTop likes this.
  12. Raikan

    Raikan I need me some PIE!

    I think the idea behind removing improved range is because voltaic slag works in both slags and lightning, so improve range shouldn't be base. Otherwise it makese them more expensive in lightning than they should be. Maybe moving it to replace sunder makes sense so it can still be chosen for a slag bg. Also, without dissipate, improve range sort of makes them range 4-7 attackers. Maybe he thought that was a bit too much.
  13. devilsrath

    devilsrath I need me some PIE!

    Regarding Lance, there isn't a single equip in SP that would make him any more ridiculous than he already is- Why waste a vicious harpoon on him when you can put the harpoon on another champ to prevent wasting Lance's AP or even just cast alacrity? I'm yet to see a valid argument as to why he shouldn't lose unequippable and gain +5 nora.

    You're stating your opinions as though they're facts. Making big claims like "G'hern bmom is OP as hell right now" is absurd. Moga/g'hern as a theme are unplayable in any way shape or form. You'd understand that if you had actually played pox since June. After reading this I have disregarded the rest of the paragraph.

    I prefer to see arguments backed by facts and testing before making ridiculous claims and using words like "morons".

    Good point on revere, i'll change the suggestion, let me know what you think.

    And regarding the fesh, i'm changing his role into more of a tank that can also be used to deal alot of damage in the correct BG with breaker: electricity. Breaker: electricity suits a a cheap, expendable tanky role champion. And since the fesh is completely unplayable he fitted the dress. SP too much good range to fit in any one BG, and by buffing the hyaenid i'm providing more.

    And regarding electric overload- I believe the problem was more with pummel also. On a champion like the hyaenid, it will take more strategy and nora to pull off than it did with the fesh. I don't think it would be as efficient/brain dead as illusion spam/pummel/lightning storm was.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  14. Nebron

    Nebron I need me some PIE!

    So what if I haven't played since june? I could take 2 years off and still know this faction better than you, which seems to have been pretty apparent to everyone reading this thread. Although things must have changed because obviously a single rune can't be broken if the theme it's in is bad, right? Guess we can just ignore stitched tyrant then eh? And just to clarify something that should be common knowledge, he kept unequipable to prevent him getting wrecked by negative equips. SP doesn't use very many equips and we had no use for putting anything on addy (You dont want to waste 3 ap on addy just to pull somebody when you can do it with another unit). What really baffles me is how you want to nerf him further when he already lost WC 3, dodge and motivate. Leave the poor guy alone.

    Do what you want though, clearly you know what SP player's want and that's why the OP got so many likes. :rolleyes:

    Call me when you guys want an actual SP player in charge.
  15. devilsrath

    devilsrath I need me some PIE!

    This is exactly why you shouldn't be in charge. You're clearly blinded by zealotry. Most of my suggested changes are buffs, mainly due to the fact that SP havn't had anything juicy (compared to other factions) in a while, and their current theme's/ meta decks are bland.

    Lance absolutely needs further toning down. When compared to similar units (see DK)- He does far too much, by way of damage/warcry and only costs 83 to put down with a further -7 from the bonus. The fact he lost WC 3, dodge and motivate is completely irrelevant- Many champs lost alot of abilities and most of them have stayed in the shoebox since the re-vamp. Lance is arguably SP's best rune.

    Lance has unequippable due to negative equips?

    This is news to me- Why should lance be any more immune to equips than any other hero??

    You'll just have to run diamond mace in future.
  16. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    ok back on topic. Thinking more about your suggested g'hernbound change makes me love it more and more. It changes the dynamics of a moga bg to deploying huge numbers of moga first then waiting for the right moment to deploy your G'hern. It is no longer essential to sac your moga fighting for mid font early on because the G'hern come at a way cheaper price which makes up for their nora advantage. Nice Job!
    On that note changing some G'hern to have more commanding roles would help the theme a lot. G'hern should directly affect the moga they are supporting. I'm thinking something like:

    G'hern Rager:
    Role: Turn Moga into beaters, beater
    Upgrade Path 1 Antagonize (6Nora), enrage rank 1 (2Nora),enrage rank 2
    Upgrade Path 2 Berserker rank 1/2 (-2/7 Nora)
    Base: attack Physical (oNora), Overseer rank 1 (1Nora), Command Charge (4Nora), inspire (5Nora)
  17. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    Yeah nerf Lance. But seeing a Lance with Earthshaker's Bracelet is gonna be annoying.
  18. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    Change to Overseer moga: Currently this whole Oveerseer moga and G'hernbound is hella unbalanced. Overseer moga rank 2 is 3 nora and G'hernbund is -8. So basically all moga gain +3dmg, and +1spd for -5 nora. With thee upcomming change to provide the aditional -1 nora for each moga in play this is going to be the target of some nerf cries. Basically what I'm suggested is more powerful abillities replace the standard Oversseer moga and the removal of G'hern bounds -1 spd and -3 DMG clause. Now that debuff can be manual adjusted in their stats. With these changes mogas stats don't lie to new players and lorewise The G'hern are now helping the moga not bounding them.

    G'hern bound: for every real unit with g'hernbound on the field friendly G'hern's cost 1 less nora to deploy (1Nora)
    Iron Overseer: friendly moga within 5 spaces gain iron will and +1 def (4Nora)
    Brutal Overseer: friendly moga within 5 spaces gain fearless and +2 dmg (4Nora)
  19. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    Lightning elemental
    As far as Breaker Electricity goes, doesn't Lightning Elemental have a built-in synergy for it??

    Bolt + Mobility to position itself in the center of the enemy, proceed to be a bomb, and kill it to proc Death Nova (oops nvm, he lost nova).

    Why not..
    1) Move Elec Eater to upgrades
    2) Move Mobility to base
    3) Change Elec Aura2 on upgrade2 slot into Breaker: Electricity
    4) Change Damage Shield: Elec 3 to Resistance: Elec 3

    That way you are eliminating redundant upgrades on upgrade 2 slots, making more builds and ways to play a single champ, all the while keeping the cost innately similar (Elec Eater 4 nora = Mobility 4 nora). This way, you have Cyco Fesh for the large AoE (being 2x2) and Lightning Elemental to pseudo assassinate faraway champs by Breaker.

    You get 3 builds: bomb, survival, healin
    A) Resist Elec 3 + Breaker: Elec
    B) Deflect + Elec Eater
    C) Static Aura + Elec Aura 3

    Mud elemental:

    1) change upgrade 1 into something more definitive like... (Currently base nora without upgrades is 60 nora)

    Upgrade 1:
    Resistance: Physical 3 (+6 nora)
    Invoke Hungry Mire (+30 nora)
    Bulwark: Elemental (+3 nora)

    So you can splash him in multiple BGs with multiple uses. Altho his range will be something like 67 - 98 nora.

    Cyclops Stonecaller:
    1) Stone Barrage and Stone Shield is such a waste of slot. They should be 1 ability because Stone Shield doesnt even exist when SB is not on CD. In that sense, the cost should go down by 5 nora to a more sensical 80 nora range.

    2) move Domain: Rock to base. For such small bonuses this skill is not rewarding enough compared to other choices, but without the ability, Rock Front is useless. So the only option is moving it to base.

    3) change the upgrades on Upgrade1: Dmg Shield: Phy3, Create Chasm into something that is more definitive of his role (aoe + range phy / rock terrain in splits).

    Base (without upgrade abilities):
    85 - 6 (dmg shield) - 6 (shatter) - 5 (stone shield) = 68 nora.

    Upgrade 1:
    Rock Defiance (+5 nora)
    Hurl Boulder (+8 nora)
    Protective (+6 nora)

    Upgrade 2:
    Shatter (+6 nora)
    Grant: Domain: Rock (+8 nora)
    Blessings of Stone (+10 nora)

    New cost range: 79 - 86 nora

    What do u think of these ideas? I just felt some things were odd when I play around with these 3 runes.
    Woffleet likes this.
  20. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    I like the way that things are moving. Very constructive. Keep up the good work devils :)
    Woffleet likes this.

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