Kalasle's FF Tier List -- PS4 -- 8/30/17

it's ok, not a solid bg by any means beyond familiar just reducing 1 cd on ability (which requires both fam and grimlic)

what do you think of bok if they DID have a racial?

 

Depends a ton on the racial. Thin champ set, almost no range -- standard for under-developed themes -- so probably eh? If their racial was anything less than necrosis probably tier 2.

 

Really are all "goodstuff" bg's deserving of tier one?

 

Wrath Feedback

FW
zombie are 1.5, sever summons and swarm are auto win versus zombie. Backlash, fire damage, fw mirror, and many tier 1 bg destroy them as well.

skeleton are 2 or 3 they are awful, heavily overcosted, and unreliable.

spirits are 1.5 you can win with stealth/ghost cheese, bg needs to be reworked it is lame to play against.

witches, attrition, and worms are probably barely 1.5(rip anthropomancer)

If fw gs is meta then it should probably be 1.5 after the anthropomancer nerf.(he got put back in his box) Not many are going to be highly ranked with it besides devilsrath imo. With no anthropomancer hero are tough to deal with.(fw has none, lol)
(slightly biased but honest opinion my bg just got gutted lol)

SL
I am not sure if draksar are 1 or 1.5, I think most gs bg are better than them if not all, draksar aren't strong early in games.

Skeezick are probably 1 because of surge, swarm, and warcry. They have few alt damage options though.(burnpyro runs the demigod Lol)

Dragons still have decent Hero in theme, some efficient/tanky champs, and surge. They might be 1.5 if built properly even though the mauler nerf and weak buffs hurt.

Myx probably a 1. They are like zombies but better, they still are weak to swarm but not as much as zombies are and aren't weak to backlash. Sever summons is still autowin versus them but they have stronger summons than zombies and are extremely strong against bgs without sever summons depending on the map. SL power turn spells and faction bonus benefit them greatly.

UD
Fire eater is a 1 or 1.5 depending on how you build it, it has strong swarm/split and ridiculous healing. Other fire bg's suck with no relocation, weaker heals, little range, a ton of counters, and are probably 2 or a 3.

Bleed can probably be 1.5 if built properly

Imps have some holes but can win over tier 1 bg just off of stealth cheese, probably high 1.5 if not 1.

Beast is probably a 2, not enough defense versus ranged or relocation or ranged damage. Also not many to chose from. Not much synergy outside of boost and a few high champ cost.

Deep elves Probably a 1.5 if built right, there are a lot of good options to chose from and can use scorched dwarf and borghas bomb.

Anthropods might be a 1.5, they can be very strong on the right map and if your opponent doesn't have swarm or too much ranged damage/detect.

SP
Normal moga are like a low 1.5 or 2 but if play them like tiny does and use trapper with vicious harpoon they are probably better than that. Most people don't though.

Voil are like a 2. Voil are bad, they got gutted a while back and really just have sceian. They only have boost 1 now and very expensive/poor ranged options with little synergy besides surge 1 and an expensive mediocre voil queen.

Lightning can probably be a 2 if built properly but I am not sure

Hyaenid are probably a 2, I have not seen them since the most recent buffs but I do not think enough was changed to make them a 1.5 tier bg and judgement was removed.

Cyclops aren't bad, if they aren't a 1.5 they are probably close. Their 5 speeds, reliance on synergy, as well as the recent symbiot nerf holds them back a bit but they are decent.


Protectorate Feedback

FS
I agree on everything

the recent backlash/soultap fix makes firk weaker though. And the backlash Affecting spell nora generation hurts them.

KF
Beast is probably a 1 if built properly, in any other faction they wouldn't be as strong but the faction bonus adds a lot of power. They have really solid melee champ options, good ranged options, good support runes, and boost 3.

I am not sure about fae because I have little experience with them but just looking at their ranged options and some of their combos they seem pretty strong. Probably a high 1.5 bg with the faction bonus helping them alot.

Archers are probably a 1.5 if built properly, as long as you have some melees to engage and soak up damage the archers have ridiculous range, damage,(from multi attacking) strong support spells, and speed.

IS
Dwarf/drunk bg might be a 1.5 with the right champions. They have very nice def stacking, tough, good ranged options, geomancer,(broken) good non champ runes, talgar,(broken) as well as probably the strongest healing outside of fire eater.(witch healing isn't as reliable)

I believe trolls to be a 2, they lack a lot compared to many 1.5 bgs and the recent grintmaw bouncer/IS nerfs don't help.

Geomancer should have been hotfixed with anthro(but not gutted like anthro lol) Shockwave does way too much damage and needs to be reworked or just nerfed a little.

Constructs definitely not a tier 1 bg. They have a lot of summons but they aren't nearly as effective as myx and swarm/strong tier 1.5 or tier 1 bgs are extremely effective against them.

ST
NKD probably a 2 or low 1.5 if you use the right runes. A lot of their strength depends on their opponent and if they have a counter to NKD or not.

Lonx is a really solid and well put together bg with a lot of synergy and aid defense. I don't think it is as strong as GS tier 1 bg though. I guess it could be considered tier one but only barely in my opinion if at all.

Flying is probably tier 2 or low 1.5, it can be really strong using the right champs and juya is ridiculous.(Many of ST's strong/overpowered champs fly)

 

If you want to rate themes, you better rate risk(drawlose possibility)/reward(max potential within reasonable time) than general tiers:
goodstuffs as lowrisk/lowreward bgs are much easier to play than certain highrisk/highreward themes, and may be better in practice because of lower mistakes count, but objectively they are not stronger.
The problem is, however, that reward is very hard to estimate objectively — essentially only possible with crowdsource-statistical methods.

 

Probably all besides fw's, not sure about sl's. SL has good themes though, Hotfix rekt fw, lol.

 

Good stuffs for the purpose of this thread is a deck composed of the best a faction has to offer. If a faction has at least one T1 theme available to it then goodstuffs will be T1 as well.

 

I don't know if fw does, FW still might be low tier 1 but I am not sure. I don't think anyone will be doing well with fw meta outside of devilsrath. (if he still plays it). Zombies are a 1.5 because of extremely hard counters. Spirits are probably also a 1.5.

 

you are aware FW has more good stuff than just anthromancer right on top of that he can still build charges Firking stupidly with harvest

 

Those Graveyards, tho.

 

you must not understand that anthro was the only reason MW was even playing FW, now that it's been hotfixed it's not a good faction anymore and the self proclaimed "king of the wastes" is going to fade away

 

I have always played every faction, anthro was the only reason I was playing fw competitively because fw is generally terrible. Stop speaking for me please, thanks.

 

The reason it was a strong rune was because it started with charges for instant damage, not just from its charge generation. I was fine with it losing that but he just lost a ton of power and got nothing in return, fw meta was crutching on him pretty hard. Now fw is basically like any other faction except without hero, less champion options, and no faction bonus other than for low nora cost meat spam runes.

 

Voil are pretty bad right now. Voils cry when they see Wings in IS as Voils know they no longer rule the skies.

 

You just rated quite a few fw themes 1 or 1.5...

 

evasive racial is pretty good in a range heavy meta.

 

Anyway, current considerations:

ST Beasts 1?
Sand 2?

To hit a couple points MW brings up:

Skeletons are no less than 2 -- Boosted Dark Rising and a bevy of summons and options for synergy can carry even mediocre champions. They have a deep pool at the least, and some good champs from that.

I've seen both Zombies and Stux function splendidly without reliance on summons. They have entire avenues of attack that eschew that weakness. Additionally, their inability to use their summon components is a problem against a selection of the BGs out there, rather than all of them. It dings matchups, but they have serious power even then. Depending on developments within the competitive environment -- new tech, new preferences -- and certainly patches, I could moving these down to 1.5. No lower without significant changes

I'm still convinced people just don't know how to play against NKD. It's strong, but garbage as a theme, when an opponent can straight counter deploy.

I'm comfortable calling Draks T1. CV is still in this game, and they can transition out of rush into phalanx because of Violent and their power-turn options from SL.

People aren't playing Hyaenid much, but they have plenty of power. Until Stalker gets nerfed, I think it's a 1.5 theme.

Spiders have the same problems which you attribute to Zombies and Strux -- and with which I agree -- but I feel they hinge more on summons without as much backup synergy or champion options. Global Multi is sick, but it's more melee damage in a faction that's already set on that.

I was really on the fence about Imps as 1 or 1.5. Mischief is sick good, but damn if they don't have a rough time with spells and passive damage. Still iffy on that one.

Also, about Voil: I haven't seen them in a long time. That rating is based off a glance over their champions and memories of the theme. Could well be a t2 theme after the last rounds of buffs.


Thanks for the comments and input so far folks.

 

I rated no fw theme a 1. Only 1 are competitive in the higher ranks not 1.5 for the most part.(except with kf maybe and stealth cheese). Compare fw's ratings with other faction's before you "....."

 

Based on this thread and your comments FW have plenty of good options. For some reason with you it's either tier 1 or bad. Sounds like you just suck without playing stuff that is obscenely broken.

 

The first time I played rath he denied my fq and I caught him off guard with voil against his experimental death benefit bg and ended up winning the game with sceian warcry.

After that he got voil nerfed to the ground and beat me like 10 times row.