Last attempt at saving UD

Tanks: chosen, shadowrake, masochist, overlord
Cc: bloodbow, demon lich, overlord
High damage (its absurd that you're trying to argue this one) chosen, fanatic, overlord, assassin, shadowrake
Range, shockbow (cheap good damage retreats after attacking) bloodbow (High damage bleeder. Demonologist, cheap swarm
Utility: lol. Dispel, cleanse, nexus, anti summon, swarm, anti equip, relocation, good stealth, illusions, drive, hex, aoe, invigorate

Man they have nothing

 

this is not a smart move. the good point of havimg a digital game is that you can modify stuff instead of rotating like a real ccg...

 

I think a single extra ability per major theme isn't too problematic now, is it? (in terms of extra burden by adding into the complexity pool)

 

Correct, but it helps bind it together and lets you start off of something and then add onto it.

 

It had cool down of 1 back when UD had literally a sum total of 0 ranged units.

Sok you need to put fiery ambush back to 12 damage for my 17 damage ambush lol turns.

Can your one ability rework be a buff?

 

My name is in here about grinlic why exactly ? Also most of these runes I've stated were nerfed to far, I just stated in a thread the other day fiery ambush was nerfed but frigid stayed the same.

I also said that Minos were strong, but not broken, and that that thunderhoof bg isn't broken but he gets a lot of bang for his buck. I also said culler is fine as is and my only issue with him is dragging attack and preparation, being on a rune with 14 base damage from us bonus.

Not sure why you keep mentioning me, and trying to discredit me, I don't play poxnora anymore precisely because the community is toxic and garbage and it has never improved. So again, your arguments with me about runes I've said were nerfed too hard, and runes I think are fine. If you have any actual topic to discuss feel free.

Sonic bolt and extinguisher are both broken and over efficient, fish kisser I don't like because I despise manic so that's up in the air in my opinion.

Imps are too flimsy, they mostly crutched on, demon shield and the imp with anti melee, and imp vixen. I'd agree they are pretty Bane Shift now, however, it seems a lot of these are indirect nerfs and not directly targeting ud.

Not sure why deep elf was changed, but their are many champs with gap closing in ud now that are very cheap and still have decent stats. If you knew your favorite faction as well as I know it you'd see heir are multiple options. Deep elf infiltrator, nefari informant are two I can think of who are both better than priestess in almost every way and cheaper. For someone who blames others for not adapting their play styles it sure seems like you crutched on a few runes and can't adapt to the new playing field.

Many names legendaries suck now, not just Korona, make a change suggestion for her if you don't like her skill sets.

Also stop blaming the people who have the least influence in every way, any rune that was nerfed in ud was probably broken as hell.

Grimlic got unequippable because he was being equipped with that fire equip and smacking peeps from 6 range with 25 damage. The illusion Bane Shift was changed because illusions are broken on every champ they are on, but even worse when on a ranged unit that smacks for 20.

Bottom line, nobody likes playing against ud because it's just rush rush rush or rage quit, I've never encountered a different play style from a ud player. You yourself admitted they are simple to play, because they are, and they used to crutch off Bane Shift maps and can no longer do so.

If you have a problem with how your faction plays, then admit that, and suggest changes, or talk to sok. Any other concerns we can hash it out later, and I'd be more than happy to go over some ideas with you on ud.

Also take notice, I've now said ud has broken runes, fw had broken runes, and st has broken runes and sl. What that shows you right their is im not biased in the same way you are.

Page 2, 3/4 of the way down the page.

http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php...d-shrine-rush-deck-is-too-strong.29227/page-2

 

I wouldn't say it's that messy, they've already got some cool stuff going on, it's a just matter of doing a few tweaks and turning it into something more integrated. You can also check out my thread on them to get an idea of their issues, what I thought they could become and maybe get some general outline where to start from.

Naturally, but you could introduce new Bok champions with that new racial in the expansion after the player one and that way kill two birds with one stone.

 

Yet for some reason Jakei can interact perfectly with Elementals and have a whole set of tools for that. There's like what, 3-4 Lamias? And all of them fill a specific role in a certain theme. The majority of Deep Elfs, Bok, Nefari don't have that role and are just suitable for a mix meta deck (if they didn't suck so much of course.)

Ok, fair enough. Btw, while we're on this topic, is Bleed still 8 nora?

Except for the fact that they'll be able to have demon shields (I just imagine what that'll do to battlemage), have the oppurtunity to run superiority in a mixed deck, give regal presence to other champions, minotaur stoker will become a consistent meta champion (i mean unless you manually fix all those potential issues.)

I think I am pretty clear, although I might have slightly exaggarated on the issue. Nonetheless, it's good that you challenged my viewpoint because now it has become a bit less obscure or me. I will be playing the aforementioned themes soon and will probably sum up what I think about em in a fortnight or so.

 

that's wise, but what other themes are in need of that as of now? I really can't think of any racial that requires a rework. Sure, there are themes that are out of hand but it's not to due to the racial per se but more with specific champs and/or interactions (although I could be wrong, I haven't see all of em in play yet), and in UD's case, it's more to do with what I've already mentioned as the main problem of the faction.

 

As soon as I have the chance I am going to post certain propositions on how to make certain themes like spiders, imps. Goblins and the others competitive while attempting my best to be unbiased and not break them

 

There is nothing wrong with UD as a whole. A few themes could do with some love but meta UD is up there with the best no doubt.

 

Some abilities are fine if they are unique, its when you can run multiple champs with the same ability that it becomes a problem. I am thinking of seism as am example. If you could only run 1 seism champ would it of ever been such a big deal? Although now it is now very expensive and quite rightly so. If it did anything other than completely destroy a relic it would be mostly useless.

 

Tier 1 themes: Minotaurs
Tier 1.5: Bleed, probably Spiders
Tier 2: Goblins, Imps, Stitched, Fire
Themes that are not quite enough to be themes: Deep Elves, Beasts, Vampyres
So I've counted themes from 4 other factions and it turns out that UD has about the same but for some reason has quite a few undeveloped themes which could be amalgamated into something more (even more if count in the quasi-themes). Vamps are getting reworked so i think you've got that covered; beasts probably need a few touches since a lot of the champs are outdated or shoeboxed and maybe could get some more interesting combos with deep elves since they work together pretty well. Vampyres and Bleed are pretty closely intergrated so perhaps it'd be a good idea to make it a racial thing, or would that be illogical, since most of the Bleed champions just look like Demons (although interestingly enough, Naria don't look like Vamps at all)?
Again, I don't think there's a need for drastic measures -- we just need a few tweaks here and there and actually come up with solid support units that could fit in with UD's flavour. The only significant change that I think needs to be done is to get a decent amount of shoebox spells, relics & equips sorted out and fitted into the themes (I could provide you a list of the runes that I think are shoebox) so that they get the stuff that justifies running them as a theme.

 

I always felt like they needed a spider-themed ability to toss around more than swarm. Something along the lines of -

Implant Egg - AP1 - When this champion successfully damages a champion with a basic attack, that champion becomes Devoured by Hatchling and this ability is removed.

Devoured by Hatchling - Loses 1 life at the beginning of each turn. This condition does not stack. When unit is destroyed or after X turns, a Spiderling spawns under your control.

 

That's actually solid and would work like gore for Minos

 

All this thread has done is got me want to play spiders again...

But I would like to disagree that they need anything... They are a sleeper theme with feeding frenzy giving EVERY SPIDER pounce... They have spot pull, and an arroweater champ... They have a spell that gives them 60 go worth of spiders for 30 Nora.....

 

Have any of you played 20-30 games at the very least with spiders?