So during the maintenance I've been looking over different BGs, and Kanen and Leoss seem to be interesting stuff. I've already gotten information on Kanen ( a lot of it ), but none on Leoss. Just looking for someone to explain their playstyle and core runes.
Full leoss:http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/CyjCiycihCyzCyxChjCylCiuCoqs5Xs4Bs2Lsls5qsNs87sKr30rirYe2Pe3i If you want to include out of theme runes, the wards of ailur can be replaced with scarlet wings or jakei starseers. Players that don't choose to run the fists ussually include excavators too. There are two things you can do with this bg, rushing with bluefist and redfist, and making a warcry phalanx. The rush: Bluefist and redfist are fast, sturdy and damaging, they'll get anywhere, they'll stay here and they'll won't go down without killing at least 1 champions. His rush is supported by his soulbond ability, that gives them a plus of efficiency and applies across the map if needed, just like leoss magnate's divine favor, so, you can support your rush while building up your army. Spells like tales of valor, healing hand and blink also help to get a decisive advantage with them. The phalan: If the fists didn't win you the game alone, the next step to do is to make a phalanx arond remnant's warcry, using ST support like ferren hideout and keeneye crown, and invigorate and haste you are almost assured the possibility to get your remnant to attack something. In this phase of the game, you'll see the buffing potential of leoss, with the racial and regal presence you'll see a impressive stats on all of your champions.
You seem to have the answer for everything ^^. Intense explanation. If I got it right I would say that Leoss can strive with a few number of champions on the field. Yet, like Kanen, still can use the racial potential to do amazing plays. Correct me if I'm wrong. And is Nora a problem with them? Just noticed none of their cost go beneath 70. Go ahead, wouldn't mind viewing it. Curious what you put in it besides Leoss. Only variant I've seen was Leoss Giants.
Guardians are incredibly underrated, the amount of damage they can do with Melee Specialist 3 + Protective is funny. Add in magnates blessing/loyalty/pride/leoss warcry and he will be hitting in the 30's . I like having atleast 1 when I run leoss. And running Mosharn is viable, you just need to make use of him and make sure he does what his nora cost requires him to do or you will be at a loss. Leoss in general will be out efficiency'd by most other themes, but when they have built up a force, they are very hard to stop because they hit a lot harder and are bulkier on average then most themes as well.
i wouldnt recommend using mosharn although he is my fav rune in the theme. leoss second biggest weakness is a lack of ranged options which is why hraken is a necessity. thier biggest weakness is that nearly all of them are over priced by anywhere from 4-8 nora. the biggest part of the learning curve for this theme is learning the tempo of champ deployment order due to thier costs. of the champs in a pure theme deck, i only consider 4 to be autoinclude x2 beyond hraken. your main phalanx should be bastion remnant, leoss druid, ward, and magnate. this group after a warcry will have all 4 hitting for over 20 damage (excluding the ward who will hit for 19 but has sunder so why split hairs lol). if you are looking for insane mobility and speed then i would fill out the rest of the champ selection with 2 redfists, 2 outrunners, and 2 boarder patrol. they will all be able to cover 9-10 spaces their first turn after deployment and only the redfist has to worry about terrain issues. (it should also be noted that an architech with shrine exertion can fit into this group also) for that magical 16th champ i would use 1 arcanis. it isnt auto or x2 because without a basic attack he becomes an investment liability to abilitys like distract and fading recolection. if you like the soul bound subtheme you could easily replace 2 of the outrunners or boarder patrols with leoss monks and bluefists. i personnaly tend toward this theme over the speed theme due to the fact that its easier to balance pride to soul champ ratios. there is the option for a stealth subtheme but ive never been a fan of that playstyle so i will refrain from advising about it due to my inexperience. the only advice i would recommend differently than GabrielQ's is i typically start with the phalanx and then move on to incorporating the monks, excepting i get a first turn redfist. my last peice of advice is that when selecting upgrades always look at the champs with evasion first. the lack of ranged support means you are going to get tagged a few times while closing in with your phalanx. secondly dont look at the wall with shroud for a source of evasion... he is one of those way overpriced units and being large makes manuevering around him difficult. otherwise i hope you enjoy playing my fav theme in pox, (with the possible exception of constructs lol)
@ sassquatch It is not that they are not overpriced (except for a couple oddities) it is that they all fill the same role, and it is an expensive one; and they lack cheaper champions.
@Pico True by and large they are mostly vanilla beaters vieing for the same spot in a bg. however compare them to the tortuns for a linear timeline comparison in terms of creep. take the leoss duid or magnate (although magnate may be a poor choice since he is one of the few leoss i feel is priced properly) and compare it to either the battle mystic, gunslinger, galesinger, mortar, or broadside. there is a significant disparity in cost versus in theme capability and options. granted there is a minor disparity in roles for the comparison but looking at the cost versus output potential of these champs and youll notice the leoss are both in the realm of 6-12 nora more expensive than their counter parts and thats taking into account that tortuns trade while tedious is a form of nora gen that offsets the racial drawbacks. base stats are very similar, as are the number of abilities allowing for how racials works out. granted we cant see the cost assesment of the abilities but i cant believe that for roughly the same number of abilities that they deserve to be 6-12 nora higher. the only true advantage the leoss have is that in the early game the font capping is easier. this isnt even considering leoss have 3 ranged champs and hraken and torts have 9 and mangelshell and this is a ranged dominated game and too few leoss have evasive. the best solution is to get more diversity in theme for leoss but even that will only futher shoebox current champs. they need a good 4-8 nora discount (especially for the melee champs) or a rework of some of their abilities and a mild streamlining of intended roles to keep them in line with a proper cost to value ratio. remember they have had their racial nerfed/modified at least 3 times and yet they never reevaluated the pricetag.
Beside a magnate with a warbanner a Druid for example would be hitting for 20, Leoss have power at a cost. The only leoss I see needing changes other then very minor cost adjustments, and I was planning on making a thread about this too, are Border Patrol, Chirai Outrunner, Pantier Lurker, Paragon of Ailur, and Jangar Architect. Bah you've inspired me I will make that thread I have been procrastinating on... mainly because too much typing.
tortuns have power at a cost too. its a lower cost allowing for there to more in play faster dealing nearly as much damage ad then gaining nora for it to get even more out faster. ive been peice meal making a guide on excell to copy and paste over myself but taking my sweet a$$ time about it too lol. as far as adjustments i think: mosharn, wall, boarder patrol, and outrunner need hefty discounts in the range of 6-8 nora (and replce the stat upgrade for outrunner) architect, bloodmane, lurker, and guardian need small discounts of about 2-4 nora druid, remnant, monk and hrraken either need mild ability reworks (like replacing the stat bonus upgrade, making warcry rank 3, making soulbound base and putting tough 3 to upgrades, and removing faithless) or else discount roughly 2 nora and for complete overhauls in design completely redo paragon cause there is no reason to run him even in a monk deck. and put attack magic range 1 back on arcanis and then remove vuln poison or discount him 3-4 nora. lastly it would be nice if the magnate got soul bound to base and maybe went to 78-79 nora. he is a monk and that is their thing. the only real nerf i can see needing to be done is the fists. the red should probably replace accrue with either ready or maybe rover accrue and then maybe putting mythical on them both. but if that happens they should each be refunded about 2 nora. i do have to stipulate that if several of these price reductions happen i could see a few of the pride champs losing about 2 damage or else reduce to bonus damage from pride to 3 instead of 4.
why is bastion remnant not included if you don't want to 2x it I would suggest just removing a leoss monk and 1x leoss monk and remnant although I wouldn't run the monk at all
In the moment you say that you want to remove 2 sources of massive AP generation you are showing your inexperience and I don't meant to be offensive. As you get better you'll appreciate more and more support and pseudo support units.
I understand ap generation is important which is why in my split ST/IS bg i would rather run a jakei starseer, although it lacks synergy as the leoss monk does it also gives my champs iron will and fearless and is capable of ranged attacks. On top of that it can perform a fatal blow instead of keeping a champion alive. It'd be simpler to 1x a bastion remnant and completely remove the leoss monk for something more favorable. Leoss monk is the most expendable rune in that bg. Edit: I guess I am inexperienced I don't favor ap generation as much as you but I do understand its importance and how it can often be a game changer.
I would suggest if it still is viable when server comes up, using BloodBow with Keen Eye Crown. That's what Dresnar used a lot, and he took them to limited 4.
If you see, I recommended starseers in case the OP wasn't looking for a full leoss bg. But, I would run the starseers with the monks, because the monks generate more AP, they have soul of ailur to increase the damage of your pride champions and it has righteous shield, that is very good to have when ou have a maximum priority target like bastion in the field.
u might need cleansing aura, maybe a pretsige, atleast 1 deep miner(someting to generate nora), i uses spells that is base on protecting a champ like impervious, RD sapping beam can be nice also
Remnant: deflect + evasive Bluefist: dodge and multiattack Hraken: horrific aura and hostile Arcanis: evasive and reflexes, but any is fine Druid: heal mass and HP Magnate: divine favor and haste Monk: divert and invigorate, but soul bond instead of divert can be used to boost a fist rush tactic Ward: evasive and impenetrable or stun.
