Markoth's Desk (August 18th patch list and next patch discussion)

She has fire dmg. not sure that was before. and under 2nd upgrade set good healing skills to choose. still same price though
heal champ 3, heal mass 3. under second upgrade

 

NCP hasn't changed... shes been fire dam with those upgrades since revamp hit.

 

You guys trying to buff a viable champ, which provides support and ranged attacks, who can also deploy relics for free, is one of the reasons one should know balance before making suggestions.

 

She's expensive.

 

Well Covahbud, but heres where it gets tricky. Shes expensive compared to other 70ish nora melee out there.
However, if you look at what she brings to the table, you find her more attractive.
Alt damage (fire), ranged (3-5), and deploy "free relics" that deal damage.
Now, she has 2 supportive roles on first upgrade (2 cleanses) and a debilitating role on the other (mark). On the other upgrade she can be a persev counter and dmg dealer (grant aura), single support (heal 3) and AoE support (heal mass).
I mean, come on. For her kit shes more than in line, at least on my view. Compare her with JFQ, for example. And you dont see me pleeding buffs for JFQ. Why? Because I think she is fine as is. Although, after this comparison not so much anymore.

 

She costs 86 for a 8 damage ranged unit (that has 3 less range than your less expensive harder hitting ranged unit that you used as an example). She can only deploy her relic adjacent to herself but needs to be in the middle of the fight for it to do much damage which is counter-intuitive for a ranged unit. Especially one that doesn't have majestic. Lastly she is the only non-LE or LEG ranged unit available to the paladin theme but so over costed she doesn't get used in favor of melee units. While that is good and fine for most Limited players that have enough runes to play Angel or maybe Cardinal, that option is not readily available for newer or "poorer" players.
Also no one is pleading to anyone for buffs. She was supposed to get a slight cost decrease in the patch as stated in the patch notes but it didn't go live. That is the only purpose of her being mentioned in this thread. Please don't come in here spewing your hate so soon after you "gave up on rants"

 

- Still make Improve range an upgrade...even if you simply remove it from base. Cost adjust it however... it's just a sandbag.

- Also I think the increased sprinkling of barbarian is going to give false balance data. For example Magnus is terribly uninteresting but do to being a barbarian now... will be incited into bounty hunter proc's. This gives the "impression" that barbarians are good...but really incite will just nerfed again and/or make champions like Magnus ineligible for future tweak consideration.

 

It was Elite Skirmisher, it had it for at least one day then it went away.

Edit: Just want to point out that there are multiple non LEG/LE holy theme range units. Just because they are Priests and Shamans doesn't mean you should ignore them. Must be paladin mentality is bad.

 

My bad. Noted.

 

Technically, him being a barbarian, one that is a good champion, does impact how good the overall class/race whatever, is. Some people like the idea of rapid strikes which incite allows and strong solo damage is a Human/Barbarian trade mark in IS. Dull to you or me doesn't negate its value. Especially when its bringing the rest of his kit which is flavorful and unique to the race.

 

Suggestions for Design( not min/maxing for perfect balance just design synergy then tweak as needed) shifts/tweaks to some of the Humans (Barbarians. Please suggest they add race Human back to Barbarians, they had it from day 1 of pox. Ideally Barbarian would be a class.) in IS.

Warchief Inauguration: Exchange Warchief Blood Clan with the honorary sigil code to expand its single cast target list from 4 champions to 8 by including Blood Clan Chiefs. As it stands you have to double cast it on any blood clan or non warchief units to get the same effect as a single cast on one of the other chiefs. However there are only 4 none blood clan chiefs counting Bastion and Zedin aka you have Bolts.

Barbarian Elite: Replace Execute with Battle Leader ( Also reprice battle leader, it is NOT a 15 nora ability. Compare to Boost/BM/Warcry even let allone Command or even Call to Arms and its absurd). AS it stands now he has both Execute base and Power attack 1-3 as an upgrade, seems a bit redundant. Gives Humans/Barbs a total of 4 champions with the ability and helps promote the overal idea that combat buffs are Humans/Barbarians thing. Like wise its a very flavorful way to combat cheap champ spam and introduce sustainability to the race.

Sarnghavan Herder: Does she need to be 5spd to balance her? Im looking at Sarg, or even EP in faction let alone a huge number out of faction for her price that bring a whole lot more to the table. Right now shes the only 5spd Barb which keeps her from really being an Incite option since 7spd zerker kinda sucks. Id be interested in hearing other peoples view on her as she is a Cheap Boost 3 champion...but Houndmaster seems significantly better. Best synergy feature ( Outside of boost/ap gen) is forced AP gen on enemies with in range of the 3 barb rebuke champions, but houndmater can still pull this off but to a weaker extent.

Mounted Hawkmaster: Rend upgrade line on a champion who is all about alt range attacks is wonky. You only ever melee attack with him if hes engaged, or to get a kill. Rend upgrade line would be better suited as something else, I will let the balance people suggest what.

Northern Cross Fanatic: Can we replace Cleave?hunter line with MS 1-3? She use to have Evasive 3 and amp charge/attack Charge AND MS 3 to increase her staying power once she jumped in to offset the HP loss of Impatient. I know Pounce helps offset it with a move+ attack compared to G Leap but she would be infinitely more useable with MS 1-3 imo utilizing her other upgrade paths.

Plans Savage: What is the point of this guy, especially now that you got the Charger buffed and Mounted Kinsmen? He watched both of his 2.0 versions, who were already better then him, get even better. I would look at the price of barbarian rider as its 60 nora, 2xs what team is which is much much better. 95 nora 2x2 with 8 damage and low hp/def with easy target is a joke. It will be very hard to find room for yet another 2x2 beast charger unit cm pared to both of the others now, it might be time for a bigger change in design? I would say to make him the Big bad Charge beater but its kinda impossible now, s really open to ideas on him. Fist, Charger, Kinsmen all out do him in every way.

Huntress: The pig most likely doesn't need the base attack to be fair.

Brutality Barbarian: Remove Race: Demon as it doesn't do anything anymore or make since. Thirst for battle on a champ with 0 def and low hp with impatient ( gets into fights with sub 40 hp, with out perfect set up of drop+ incite/pult+attacks) is just not going to work. You dont leave that kind of unit engaged let alone in Humans/Barbs where you are not tanky and trying to kill asap. Would suggest replacing it with Roar or Blessing of the Fallen for thematic effect of a fallen barb seeking a beautiful death for honor, taking as many as he can with him. Also helps pull the kill/die for benefit concept a bit tighter on the race. It would fall in the 56-62 range depending on which one you picked as its cheapest build. Is that In line with current standards for price?

Cardinal: Is a we bit expensive for a champion that kills himself whenever anyone uses an ability. He could stand to get a tap down as his ability set is nice just expensive. ( Does anyone think he looks nothing like a human?)

Shieldman/Vet: Both slightly expensive if this new price system is going to stay as is. Nothing more then ~3 nora really.

Zedin: Hes iffy as his signature ability Intimidation was nerfed and its never been very impressive to begin with. Especially for a theme that can grant him immunity to all melee damage for 1 round at will with Pride (while making it hidden and giving assault). Call to Arms being 4 nora compared to 12 on Intimidating ( going to say Call to arms is most likely way too cheap) would allow him to play around with higher builds and put him in the 66 nora at cheapest camp ( assuming no Call to arms price change) to 72 at most expensive build while actually giving the only non bastion Stone Clan member a greater roll with in the Human race as the 3rd call to arms champion.

Exemplar: Class: Shaman. Tough upgrade line seems off as shes a range damage dealer with a on death trigger heal/damage buff. You don't usually want your semi squishy range unit to be tanking so Tough seems kinda meh on her. Would like to suggest Roar and Blessing of the fallen to replace Tough 1 and 2 ( or the whole line) as she has this Death Shaman vibe already and this would keep that going while allowing for a similar price to now.

Fist of bastion: most likely needs a nerf, and not just making it harder to proc but actually fixing the design issue.

 

Wait her relic can only be deployed adjacent to her? Yeah... I'd rather put that to the upgrades and get something else base.


EDIT:

Also how is Aria electricity, when her spear is on fire

 

- I agree totally. Thats why incite got nerfed before. It's not interesting or creative but it will be very powerful inciting charger knights and magnus' into people's face...and with the added bonus of never allowing individual barbarians to get fair looks without thinking "what if people incite this? "

- Incite is very cool and flavorful we just gotta be careful splashing barb because now Magnus will not get a fair look imo, cuz now he now he just got collaterally buffed due to incite candidacy.

 

Exemplar should be a barb paladin again. Just saying. But what I want to talk about in barbs is brutality barb. All he needs is a small amount of sustainability or something to make him more effective. Maybe replace impatient for vivify. And make him 7 base speed. Maybe add execute to one of his Zerker upgrades.

 

The odd thing about charger knight is that it is EXACTLY the same champion as plains savage only better because it came out later. They Serve the same purpose and role, with the same core building blocks. Inciting it is literally no different in concept just power level.

 

My rant is over towards the devs.
On players who have been away for a couple of years, then start making bad balance calls I can spew my hate whenever I want.
Also, last I saw, the relic was deployed away from her, like 2 or 3 spaces. Dont give me this "shes an alternative to expensive units" crap, because the minute shes above the curve the "rich players" start using her as well.

 

Relic drops next to her as of 2 days ago.

 

Fair enough though I have never been fully "away" from the game. Granted I was less than would constitute as active for about 8 months or so but that was 6 months ago. Since then I have played almost 20 games per week with the exception of this last one while in FL. If you wish to hate that is your right but don't let it cloud your judgement because it makes you seem ignorant.
Example: Priestess used to be able to deploy her relic at 3 spaces but that changed back with revamp 1.0. Since then it could only be deployed in adjacent spaces.
The goal has never been to put anything above the curve, merely to make it useable. Dont be a fool, no one is paying almost 90 Nora for a unit that hits like a limp noodle and awkwardly deploy a relic that doesn't get run on its own. You are completely right that it would get run if it became better than other options. But as it stands no one uses it and a slight Nora decrease would make it seem okish.

Lastly before you begin calling me out on "zealotism" please point to ANY change that I have recommended that puts anything "ahead of the curve".

 

A tad unfair mate, he broken down each piece of why he saw the champion as too much of a toolbox without bringing much if any emotion into the discussion.

 

The relic dropping next to her ruins her. That's a complete design failure but that's what I've come to expect. Remove the ability altogether or switch with something on ups.