Marouk of the Dunes, yay or nay?

Hmmm...

 

Don't get too off topic. Sand does not have range, and movntarget is right, aoe does not replace range. We have 1 ranged sand unit which is sand dragon and he is 81 nora at best, which is expensive. Thats the only real range we have in sand. I don't count 3 or 4 range like sand ele because he isn't long range. Remember sand snipe was changed to melee. So we still lack range hardcore.

Original G1, you are right that there are a variety of races, but I will list here the things that make sand its own bg (kinda like having its own racial)
-Number 1 thing is champs that benefit stat-wise from sand (Sand striker, domain, and also dune walkers mantle which gives both)
-Number 2 is the sandblast ability. Having multiple sandsprayers and trying to maintain the debuff on opponents.
-Number 3 is hidden sand. Theres a few champs that are squishy but great dmg that have hidden. A few with ambush too.
-Number 4 is mobility from tunnels and dune walker moving units around.

Sand has enough incentives to run as a theme. The main strengths of the bg is dmg, mobility and hiding. The problems are it has no range. Also when the hidden sand melee units are found, most are squishy and easily killed. There are a lot of bomb/jab/greeting stuff that can destealth them, which is one reason I thought murk would be good to add to the theme. That would make them less susceptible to range, and countered more by detection instead of using an aoe/bomb/jab/global to single out and focus units down. I mean, sirocco sounds good, but the sand champs aren't super tanky to begin with, and sirocco doesn't exactly fit their current strengths.

What sand needs is range (even midrange dot would help), or more sand gen/support like murk. Sand isn't really tanky or lots of hp so why sirocco? Plus its high ap cost. He ends up being like dune walker: A melee unit that sits in back that never attacks

 

wow, sand elemental, sand dragon, sand spitter, sand hunter, Skeezick Herder, Varu Dragon, Tainted Vinecreeper, plus AoE sand spray champs, ya i dunno what you guys are going to do about range, i'll shut up. Let me know if I forgot any that is off the top of my head.

 

i mean any range champ +Dunewalker's Mantle is trash too. I really am the worst player of all time.

 

Don't really appreciate the sarcasm. Troll somewhere else.

I listed sand ele and sand dragon. Sand spitter IS sand dragon. Sand hunter is incredibly weakened, and range 5. Skeezick Herder is costly and weak, range 5, mostly filling a role in a beast bg. Tainted Vinecreeper and vary dragon are melee units. Again sandspray is not range. and of that random list you acquired, you listed all the sandsprayers but 2.

I fail to see where ur sarcastic comments apply to this thread. As I stated before, sand dragon is the only long range (range 6) sand has, and he is costy.

 

i'll get better, one day.

 

he is a good rune but sl beast and sand bgs are really bad so there isn't much use for him.

I really like this rune alot though one of my favorites from coalitions.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I missed you <3

 

I like sandkip, but sand is lacking a certain synergy. It was pointed out about the mix of races in the sand theme, and it's true. Beasts and drake are the closest things to racial themes, and too much is missing from each to stand alone. Sandkip is a move in the right direction by providing supportive abilities to the sand terrain. Sand needs more things similar.

Things sand does really well: mid-short ranged champs, aoe attacks, and minor damage mitigation (stealth and sandblasted). The problem is there is no synergistic STRATEGY in sand. The problem is that the most successful bgs use meta runes withy a sand module. I don't mind that being a thing, but sand as an actual playable strategy doesn't really exist.

My challenge for you @Sokolov is to edit/change/add some sort of synergistic strategy to sand champs. Like I said, sandkip is more in the right direction, adding support to other things occupying sand. Maybe make this to where they debuff enemies while occupying sand or similar stuff. But there needs to be something to unify the theme as a whole other than lay down sand, grant tunnel/trail, equip mantel.

 

I like him, hes pretty awesome for Sand decks but as has been mentioned, Sand decks are currently lacking a little as far as being competitive goes. Ive been trying some race themed sand decks like Sand Draksar, Sand Myx and Sand Dragons but they feel a little underwhelming at times, it may be that i am just bad or im playing the decks incorrectly. Theyre full Draksar, Myx and Dragon decks essentially with Sandkips and Mantles. Draksar benefit a ton from Sirocco. Dragons not quite as much, Varu dragon is neat though and theres always Relay, Vinny and Rumblers.

Sand confuses me a little bit at the moment because of the fact that it covers so many different races, if u run a more "collective" sand deck with Draksar, Elementals, Dragons, Beasts and Arthropods the synergy feels a little lacking. Dunewalker provides great mobility and Mantles provide damage but other than that there are few strengths. Desert Master is good but is limited to Manticore and Sandstalker Lord, i do not like Manticore too much as its hella expensive. Sandkip adds some more synergy with Sirocco which is a neat ability and some ranged damage with Spray/BSandspout. A step in the right direction but Sand certainly lacks a solid ranged champion. I was running Draksar Psion in my Sand Draksar deck and he was working wonders, but hes not so great outside of a Draksar orientated deck.

Maybe fix Sandhunter is a simple solution, he was baller before and got over nerfed. Sand Dragon/Spitter is too expensive at the moment and is sand bagged with Consume and Tunnel. Myx Sandsnipe is resting in pepperonis and Skywing Imperator is the only good option. Hes kinda not runnable against UD though because FR sucks, unless u run Dragonclaw.

I also found it really sad that Desert Camouflage is on ONE rune in the entire game...id like to see a couple of champs maybe recieve that as an upgrade option, i guess Sirocco gives Evasive 1 but ya know, its not quite the same thing. Desert Camo feels flavorful. I like Sand as a theme and i do feel it needs a bit more fleshing out as far as synergy goes.

Sorry if i went off topic or rambled on.

Side note, @Sokolov maybe you cant answer this but are you thinking of pushing Sand into a Beast orientated SL theme? It felt that way with Sandkip but it may just be coincidence.

 

so here is what I am running with sand using the sandkip as a support: https://poxbase.com/deck/C6@C7ZcxtCg0c9ucfFCi1CwbcauCdQckNs6LS8os84s73s7usYs5jrPr2qr1OE1F I am actually impressed with his utility, but like all the other non-tanks, he dies alot if focussed at all. But all in all, great rune for the theme. Now I cant decide if I wanna add a 2nd and take out a sandstalker... hmmm... but sandkip gets 8/10 from me.

 

Idk about that, I am gonna be testing it out fully here when I get some time, but my initial tests have been very positive. We shall have to see

 

Reading this messed with my not so sober brain. Did you speed type this?

Edit: I agree though, i feel like Sirocco on top of the SL faction bonus is very nice, i like the ability and its a neat weapon for sand bgs. I added it to the Draksar stat stacking sauce and its really nice. You though Hunchback was tanky enough? How about Sirocco?

 

Meh good enough. Theres still the "it could rather tough to kill things." and the "It can picture sand slowly..." but hey im no grammar police, idgaf really.

 

No really dont misunderstand me, idgaf about grammar and stuff like that, lifes too short. I wasnt trying to be a ****bag or anything i was just pointing out that your particular post messed with me when i was reading it. I had to take a second read. Bare in mind that i have been partaking in the 420 blaze it so that wont have helped ha.