Hey sorry, I was playing poorly so I decided to take a break for a few days. Will edit this post with my current bg soon.
Here is a link to my current version: http://poxbase.com/deck/c60Ch3Ch1ch4CjVCz2Ch0cyKCqs8dsys7Fs8fs7ds3os86sOsAs1lR3prAr20e2K Quick Details, I can elaborate where specified: I usually play with a hit and run style or rush style depending on context. Rush is self-explanatory, hit and run is essentially a bunch of swapping, teleporting, and bloodseeking errywhere. Cullers relocate makes this a lot easier. Usually target one or two key champs to one round in consecutive rounds, then retreat, let opponent overextend. If the opponent is any good, it isn't so simple. Champs: Auto: 2x Sentry, 2x Culler, 2x Portalwalker, 2x Thunderthighs, 2x Bmage I don't consider any of the minotaur chmpaions terrible, and I'd experiment with them to see what you like. Personally, I don't care for fury's and I only deployed Malandur once every fifty games. I generally don't like 80+ nora champs unless they are dificult to kill, Malandur often had a bullseye and isn't as durable as Bmage or gladiator. I use Insurgents as my primary rush units and either run one or two depending on how I feel. Non-minos: Grimlic provides some nice range, have always run him. Stitched first has been really helpful with healing, and deathpact isn't much of a drawback when he can be swapped back so easily. In the past, I have run summon: Imp units for the stealthed summon, which allows maneuvering the imp behind the enemy, placing a dimension door, and teleporting behind front-line units to target ranged units hiding in the back. Revisiting grimlic, I use his illusions for practically the same purpose: more efficient dimension door placement. Mino Upgrades: Bmage: Swap 3, Immune: Magic (pretty standard) Culler: Accrue, MA 2 (The amount of ap spent for various maneuvers that chain multiple teleporting, swapping, etc. has all been built around culler having MA 2. If I changed it to MA 1 at this point, I'd probably screw myself over a lot from forgetting) Gladiator: Tough 3, MS 1 Insurgent: Charge 3, Hostile (Rush unit, so play for maximum solo damage early on. Comboes well with mandate early in the game) Portal Walker: Swap 3, bloodseeker (I often get asked "lol moganub why do you run bloodseeker, everyone knows tele 1 is auto!" Meh, preference. I prefer the better mobility with bloodseeker in terms of going in-and-out for a kill.) Sentry: Evasive 2, Detection 1 (Teleporting will always give him evasive 3, and I don't have a really good reason for staying at detection 1 besides the fact that I like cutting nora costs and living dangerously) Thunderthighs: Charge 3 for both, Unstoppable for one, Resist: Fire 3 for one (Have found a lot of value in the versatility this brings) Spells, Relics, Equips: I switch between a lot of different things and most of these slots are wildcards. I'll address some of the more likely questions, but I encourage experimentation and running whatever you find effective. Why no 2x Maddening Echoes? Most players bad enough to group their champs in AoE 2 against UD I won't have any trouble beating regardless of having maddening echoes or not. Good players that I actually care to beat would rarely group in AoE 2 against UD. I'm not above a cheap win, but winning with 2x Maddening Echoes has never felt like an actual victory and I don't think the mechanic makes for a good gameplay experience for either side. Yeah, I could make my wins against the bad players quicker, but I'd rather not waste the slots when I might need them against a better player. Orb vs. Mindslicer: Hit and run relies on maximizing pseudorange available to minotaurs, so mindslicer ends up hurting me as well as my opponent. Orb doesn't effect my units negatively and, since it relies on a passive mechanic instead of mindslicer's active mechanic, you run a good chance of your opponent forgetting to account for its presence. Also, the damage mitigation is in the form of 20%. Adding this on to various ranks of evasive and levels of defense makes it more ambiguous how much damage will actually be done. Dimension Door Bugs: About once every 20-30 games, you will run into a peculiar bug with dimension doors. If you teleport a unit, they will spend 4 ap instead of 2 ap, they will turn invisible until you move them or activate an ability again, the teleport ability from doors will be put on cooldown, and your champion will stay in its previous spot. I have yet to trace what causes it, but it has ruined several matches for me. (MUST READ) Blast Doors Bug: There is also a bug with blast doors which procs with every use. If you have one door out, it blows up and you spend 35 nora as expected. 2 doors out? Surprise! Both blow up, but you instead spend 70 nora. 3 doors? Expect to spend 105 nora. Notice a pattern? The initial expenditure will always show -35 nora from your nora bank, but as each consecutive door explodes, you will lose 35 nora. Luckily, your nora bank won't go below 0. So if you blow up 3 doors with only 45 nora in your bank, you will only spend 45 nora (though it would be better if you only spent the 35 nora as expected...). Mirror Matches: You can use your opponents dimension doors. Mino Mirror Matches really suck, just FQ. Disclaimer: I typed this out pretty fast so certain things could probably be stated in better ways. If you see anything that doesn't sound accurate or intelligent, call me out on it.
sweet, appreciate it moga didn't think about running resistance fire on thoof, guess it does work when you can get charge 3 and keep him at 65 though going to have to pick up a first now and try some of the upgrade abilities I wouldn't of though of edit: and then I realise that charge 3 and resistance 3 doesn't = 65
Took out the second instigator and added madddening echoes. Been pretty useful. Haven't noticed any problems with running 14 champs, which is actually what I usually run in most bgs. Depending on the new mino(s) that are released, some non-champ runes may start getting pushed out for a more comfortable champ count. How are your guys Mino decks looking?
The list looks awesome and I had the chance to play against this so I know it's strong. Since I recently got a bunch of high value runes for free (including Grimlic) I'm thinking of building a Mino deck. Especially now when I see someone successfully play Minos without Malandur for the first time. I'm not generally willing to acquire LEGs if I'm not sure I'll be playing the deck pretty much forever. I think I'll straight up copy your list (I have a very similar playstyle in theory) and make adjustments from there. The only thing I wish I could add to Minos is some CC like Pin Down/Stun/Paralyze because I feel the need to control my opponent's movements that way. Unfortunately I don't think Minos work in splits, so do you happen to know any viable UD CC options? I do have one question though: you now run Stitched First and I like him, but are you not worried about the removal of Demonologist? I'm not sure but I think the meta still has plenty of summons, though it hasn't been as bad lately. In any case, respect! PS: I really hope the new Mino brings CC, but at the same time I'm worried that might make them too strong.
This what my Bg looks like now http://poxbase.com/deck/c3VCh3Ch1ch2Ch=ch4cjVCz2Ch0cqs7asys4@s8fsOsAS1lR3pr3TrAr20e24e2K
What you pointed out is true, Minos lack CC as a theme. Of course, there are some instances of minimal CC such as dragging attack and blast doors (be very careful with this). Besides that, I'd also qualify fiery ambush as great CC during a font battle. Another indirect CC inolves relic placement. The BG I outlined has 4 relics and two Sentrys which can easily deploy relics. I've found it useful to use Minos ease of relic drop/deployment to block off problem champs, especially 2x2 champions. Regardless, just as the best form of cleanse in UD is sacrifice (or retri, w/e), the best form of CC is death. As far as Demonologist goes, I found that Griefbearer was all around better for countering mass summons just through personal use. Going further, I've also found that I don't have much trouble against summon heavy bgs do to the rush oriented nature of the deck. In terms of summon spam, I mostly come across trees, zombies, and spiders and only spiders have given me trouble. As an aside, Demonologist is also a LEG and I think it is nice to model a highly competetive bg that is (1) theme-based and (2) budget-oriented. I like keeping the design accessible to all players and its nice to tell new players of strong decks that don't require LEG runes. So even if the meta becomes unbearably summon-heavy again, I'd probably opt for Griefbearer instead of Demonologist. Also, I am loving Stitched First. Death pact helps deal with problem champs, transfer life provides welcome healing, and he is another source of magic damage (during the reign of AA, this was a huge problem for the deck and is why I originally had to include blast doors to avoid autolose situations with Ghost).
Close. If it is a negative equip, the best form of shatter is still sacrifice. On a more serious note, I've just never ran shatter. I started out playing SL for several years, before magnetize was released, and just kind of got used to not running anti-equip. This is where personal preference comes in I guess, but ever since those days I've never put in runes for the sole purpose of shatter. While on the other hand I went on to incorporate magnetize in my Draksar BG to mainly deal with relics.
Masochism makes any champ a spot-meatshield. Example uses would be where I'm rushing a shrine and he fortifies, then I can use masochism on a rune not near the shrine to give me an extra round to finish off the shrine. Or back when you could timeslip an opponents champ, I would masochism one of my own champions so I would have a 20spd champ for the next round. Pretty much any situation where you wouldn't want one of your best performing champions to be killed next round and would rather risk losing a champ who isn't really performing so well this match. I also like to use masochism on the First, so that if he dies I can redeploy him and create a stitched dreameater from the remains. As a quick note, masochism is loss of life. Because of this, a champ who you make impervious, e.g. Undertortoise with Turtle, will still take damage if under the effects of Masochism. When you say balefire, are you referring to the spell purefire?
Main use of purefire is for dispell. Examples of annoying spells and positive conditions it counters include blizzard cloak, impervious, righteous deflection, nora shield, bodyguard, most temporary stat/ability buffs, and a lot more. As an auxiliary condition, it also grants vuln: fire which can synergize well with portalwalker and spells/relics that deal fire damage for better damage output.
