New Mulligan Rule

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Jul 15, 2016.

  1. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Give tome of hate dead zone 3 and dead zone voodoo, makes it playable with a bit of anti rush and anti spell spam. This would also help out the new spirit runes.
     
  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    new spirits need no help
     
  3. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    ToH isn't getting an overhaul, just potential tweaks because it's indirectly affected by a core mechanic change.
     
  4. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    I use ToH with Ancients Protection. Unfortunately most of my FW decks don't use the combo as it loses out on other spells needed for the bgs design rather than counterplay. As well as the combo being an expensive tempo hit to block even a single spell at 80 nora combined. Lowering Tomes cost would be a welcome change.
     
    OriginalG1 likes this.
  5. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Perhaps scorn could move up to 10 shrine damage. You could even add a second rank that does 20 damage.
     
    OriginalG1 likes this.
  6. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I would say add scorn, reduce its cost, and add a little more hp. standard hp of 20, no need to go 21 or anything crazy.

    Scorn seems preferable as it helps initiate at least one proc of the tome making the rune sort of self contained at least for a perseverance counter.
    The nora cost reduction is what is going to be needed on this bad boy to make it less of a tempo hit as it will be more limited in the way it needs to be maintained by shrine damage.

    Current sources of scorn or shrine damage are Skelly Berzerker, Death Guard, a very few immortal champ optional upgrades, and lichborn/eternal life.

    However the main interaction that will keep this running is Shrine exertion which we have in Bone mason (terrible) and Elsarin Bazaar (pretty good) and Execution Order (terrible). As stated the bazaar is probably the most meta. Execution order is a pile ever since it's creation and even more so with the needed change of shrine exertion from plane exertion due to cooldown changes.

    Execution order should just loose the melee only clause along with execute and maybe get a cost reduction. Basically Melee only is there to shore up the cluster that is execute being usable on ranged/semi ranged champs *COUGH IRONFIST MINISTER COUGH*. Melee is so constricting while at the same time hard to capitilze on if actually run in a bg made to do so.

    For example say I put all melee guys or run summons like carrionlings/skeletons to max out my Execution order power turns. Problem is you have to click upwards of 3 times per champ (exert,execute,attack) which makes it hard to do under the turn timer restrictions and is just ugly design. Now if Execute only triggered on Melee only attacks that would make a LOT more sense and render the melee only clause on the spell un-needed.

    Elsari Mason on the other hand? Probably just need to trim some nora off of Bone Mason. Seriously 8/12 nora? Meh.
     
  7. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Crap... Back on topic... Mulligan rule.

    I am a little leery that this can be done multiple times at just the cost of 10 nora. This seems like an Ipox dream for combo bgs.
    I'd rather it just be free but only 1 time.

    Also how will this work in conjunction with card draw or runes that are pre-ordained?
    For example say I have an obelisk of foresight.

    Do I get 9 runes?
    If I play the obelisk and get 3 more reveals (11 revealed runes with 1 obelisk out) and then use the shrine mulligan ability what will happen?
    Will everything minus the obelisk be hidden and new 8 runes drawn or will a new 11 runes be drawn?

    Likewise with playing champs and muliganing.
     
    IMAGIRL, OriginalG1 and badgerale like this.
  8. Ralphen

    Ralphen I need me some PIE!

    Probably, allow for multiple mulligan is not a good idea: just too easy to get a perfect draw for combo/solitary decks, with no real advantage for standard decks.

    I'm more inclined to have it allowed as a one time option that is removed after the first rune played/deployed (this would solve the issue stated above by yobanchi).
     
  9. phdstax

    phdstax Active Member

    This mulligan rule needs to have a few Conditions. First, once a rune is played, it is removed. Second, using the mulligan option means the reshuffle must allow the same cards to reappear. Third, once the mulligan is used, the cards reshuffle again to keep super champ builds from building too quickly.
     
    IMAGIRL, 19madfox95 and Kampel like this.
  10. Excalibur95

    Excalibur95 I need me some PIE!

    what is the rate of rune reveals after the first turn for each player? so first turn it will be 8/9 runes, im not even sure the number we get now at start, derp.. although after first turn we currently get two runes + additional one rune if we scry.. so 3 total.. are we going to get at least 3 rune reveals each turn?
     
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Current numbers are 4/5 to start, with 2 (+1 scry) each turn; new numbers would be 8/9 to start, with 2 flat each turn. Numbers pan out as mentioned previously:
    You can run the full math based on that info if you want.
     
  12. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    Would it be possible for Impassioned to get a small cost decrease along with these changes? Without Scry to lower your shrine's HP below half, the ability loses some of its inherent power, as it is now completely reliant on how your opponent plays. 99% of the time you're running an Impassioned unit, you're going to be lowering your own shrine's HP to grant those combat stats, and with Scry leaving, it's a far more unreliable mechanic now.

    Another idea would be to change it entirely so that it's similar to Tormented. As in, the unit would gain damage and defense proportional to how low your shrine's HP was: the lower your shrine's HP, the more stats it would gain. This makes it a little more useful at all stages of the game, rather than just a big buff when you're a few turns away from losing.
     
    Tweek516 and SPiEkY like this.
  13. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    I like this idea quite a bit
     
    IMAGIRL likes this.
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    What cost do you suggest?
     
  15. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    1 or 2 lol
     
  16. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    I do not like the word Mulligan. Pox uses an extensive vocabulary, and Mulligan reminds me of a desperate golfer. Rehabilitation, rebirth, reawakening, awakening, laser bomb redo; this hand is poo?
     
    IMAGIRL and Eadbusta like this.
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Mulligan in games was popularized by MTG and is one of those terms that's generally understood by gamers. There isn't a big reason to deviate from an established term when one is available for this type of mechanic.
     
    soulmilk, super71 and SPiEkY like this.
  18. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    Great, we have mulliganing now, and you may not even need it cause of initial draw size.
    How long till we can start milling?
    (No seriously I love milling)
     
    IMAGIRL likes this.
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Try Jellebrium?
     
    soulmilk likes this.
  20. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    It's close but they get the runes back, and I can't watch all their cards just fall into the graveyard 1 by 1 (or in the case of hearthstone, literally burn away); I don't even know what I semi-mill.
     
    IMAGIRL likes this.

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