(NEW) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

when did marytr get put on the chopping block? what are the proposed hits to him? who is coming up with these champs to be put on the chopping block?

 

They walked right into our trap.It was our plan all along.

 

He is considered to be to efficient and the idea is to sandbag him with some ability so he is not so cheap.He is not that overpowered and broken,just too efficient,and they run out of things to complain/nerf in fw.

 

Honestly i don't get it, Martyr and Creeper are like the two cost effective champs FW has but no, apparently thats just too much. I could deal with a slight cost increase on Creeper but really what is wrong with Martyr? Every faction has these crazy high damage low cost brawlers and Martyr is just about the only thing we have right now that can keep up with them. Even if it is strong martyr is hardly a problem to deal with, it has high hp but no defense so it isn't exactly hard to kill and on top of that it does literally nothing to relics, shrines and constructs. Obviously when it comes to repurposing them it's a different story but repurposing things like Martyrs is pretty much our only reliable method of generating flat damage.

I was also wondering where our views currently are on dead fairy and fester? Personally it drives me nuts, it's a completely useless ability for reasons i hope i need not explain and essentially a sandbag. I remember reading a thread recently filled with non FW players seeming very butthurt about the mere concept of a cost reduction to dead fairy and saying it didn't need 'buffing'. I personally feel that dead fairy is quite balanced, for something which people usually spend 80-90 nora on it is extremely vulnerable and having one caught out and one rounded can be a huge blow. I think the straight removal of fester and getting the cost down a few nora would be a perfectly reasonable change, or even just changing it to a similar ability which i might actually consider using at least once in my entire life.

I just want to clarify i don't think that Dead Fairy need a buff, it just needs to not have fester anymore.

 

If martyr is going to get hit, I think a cost increase would be an ugly way to go about it. Cutting down the upgraded soulsift to rank 1, and chopping off 2 points of damage would seem like a better route.

 

For some reason,a lot of non-fw players consider fw to be super strong and popular even in its current state.When i beat kf bgs while playing fw i have people complain how kf needs buffs and fw is amazing.Maybe because of split bgs or something i dont know.
I am not entirely sure but i think fairy losing fester and rabid getting fixed will be in the next patch.

 

How exactly is rabid getting fixed?

 

There is a bug where inhibited doesnt refresh or something like that.

 

That would explain all the times i was wondering why disease was still ticking but inhibit was gone.

 

....which is exactly why D fairy needs fester until rabid gets fix'd.

 

OR, we could nerf it into oblivion! For no reason whatsoever! That's totally what needs to happen.

 

no

 

Well, I will take what I can get.

I think there are two things I would like to get fixed. At one hand, dark healing on itself is a bad ability in the current game filled with passive healing that DH does not affect. Then, revel in misery at will made DH redundant on top of that, at least within the theme. At the other hand, there is a conflict between the abilities and her overall purpose. I mean, she have deathstrike at base, which is ok, but relocate: foe is an upgrade, which is required to get the most out of deathstrike. If we pick it, then we would sacrifice pawn, her only relevant defensive ability. Which is particularly sad because she have damage shield as her other upgrade path. Given how fragile she is, if a melee champion engages her and its not one turn-ed, then Sarinda is dead. Or close to.

My proposal:

• Remove dark healing. Gone, puff.
• Move relocate: foe to base.
• Place rite of creation (sacrifice real champion, everybody gains regeneration 3 for some turns) in upgrades.

Another idea:

• Remove dark healing.
• Remove deathstrike from base.
• Add death pact to base.
• Remove relocate: foe from upgrades.
• Add confuse attacker on upgrades.

 

Two things:

Dusk Creeper: I like the suggested changes. One current problem, however, is that grabbing globes on deploy doesn't trigger fading light, so the nifty idea of combining forage and startle won't work quite as well. Bummer.

Xulos: I love the suggested changes, but I worry that the Statue build could be game-breaking. After doing a bit of theory crafting and messing around with the statue and Xulos as is, there is a lot of potential there for some scary stuff. Hard to say if the recommended setup shouldn't happen, but would recommend keeping an eye on it.

On a related note: it would be great if you could put Statue of Xulos under the bug section. It currently only grants damage to Xulos, not the additional health it should.

 

Yeah i don't know why people don't do it more. Obviously putting all your eggs into a mega xulos basket can be risky but throw some repurps in there and xulos can turn into a complete beast.

 

A 6 spd beast that doesn't have mobility anywhere close to serkan.

 

The real concern about Xulos as an absolute terror is how a statue build breaks down a lot of the standard mechanisms behind late-game build-up champs. Often, or perhaps I should say always, as with Serkan + Vendetta, Soul Siphon champs, super champs in other factions - pretty much any later game monster anywhere in the history of Pox - players have had to invest a notable amount of nora on the board, and then balance their investment in that late-game powerhouse versus fighting things out. In order to stay alive, they often have to risk this strong champ or combo in battle before it is a guaranteed win. This has stopped control running rampant. The requirement that players invest nora in the board to setup for late game has been foundational to much of Pox Nora so far.

Statue of Xulos breaks this. That is produces only a single 6 speed champ with limited removal protection and mobility is only a minor inconvenience, the important part is that is destroys the core ideas about resource distribution over the course of a game. A turn one statue of Xulos is 30 nora, which still permits at least a 75 nora champion even if going first, and that 30 nora requires not further attention, management, or risk in order to threaten infinite late game power. Normally, playing to a draw against FW is playing to lose, as I've said before, because of the CD faction bonus and Tomb. Statue of Xulos changes that as well: the Statue actually provides increased power as the game progresses - not in vague nora-generation margins, not in small points of damage on transient opposing champions, not in access to older runes - by actually providing a strict up-scaling that doesn't decrease in any way as the game proceeds (barring some bold and rash action by the opponent).

A player can play statue for 30 nora on turn one, and then wait until turn 30 when the statue has 80 life to drop Xulos. Xulos then gets +8 damage and +16 HP, not a huge boost, but enough to make him a real terror for what you are paying for. That would make him a 19 damage ranged unit with 64 health, without banner. Again, not an ostensibly game-breaking champion, but the crazy part is that you are paying pennies for that inevitability until you actually need it. Those hour-long games that hit 70 turns would see a Xulos getting +16 damage and +32 health. That is the kind of bonus that makes Foul Rite competitive; that's the kind of bonus an entire BG can be built around and succeed with. Strength of Body would make those damage values potentially preposterous.

That said, this is still theory work. The statue is non-functional right now, and the current Xulos is so over-costed that even with the crazy distribution benefits you are paying a lot for what you expect to get. But that outline of why Statue is theoretically game breaking - not unbalanced, just extremely different - should show why I think Xulos should have at least one eye kept on him.

 

That is quite a theory.

I think it's a little far fetched when compared to other items like Aspect of growth or even collection of souls.

In any case We'll take a look at the heroes after the Ronin Expansion is out to see where things end up.

 

It may be a little out there - part of why I find it concerning is that it is as different as it is. There are a couple key differences from Aspect/Collection/other mechanisms I touched on. First, this is guaranteed setup starting from turn 1. Second, this is only 30 nora to begin setup, and no further investment. Third, the power building doesn't die with Xulos. You only lose the nora value of Xulos. But with the CD reduction FW has (aside: I realize removing CDR would seem like a quick and obvious fix, but I am not a fan of that for plenty of other reasons), that champion is going to come right back around without any decrease in build rate or build strength. Actually, by that time the threat will have only increased. With other threats - Aspect, Collection - when that big-bad is gone, all that buildup, investment, and work is gone as well, and the apocalypse counter resets. But with Statue, the apocalypse machine has a vessel that it works through, it has a manifestation that requires only a nominal fee to operate. A well executed plan to remove a win-condition works in other scenarios. Here, it just pushes back the clock. The clock never stops.

Those three elements combined are enough to make this something to watch. Not, of course, that I would object to having a doomsday machine behind my shrine, quite the contrary: those three things described above make me greedy to try it out and use it. But I'm familiar enough with my tendencies to recognize that such excitement is often the result of serious - or potentially serious - problems. Potentially. I just want it watched, not yet changed.

 

Ah, but I think you're discounting one main resource being used in this instance and that is time.

What does it matter if you get a +16 dmg +32 hp champ on turn 30 if the game is already over due to the more efficient bonuses.

There is a cost even if that is merely waiting or investing.
I see what you are getting at though and will definitely watch it.