Non-Client Non-Balance Stuff

FW faction bonus changed to negating opponents bonus. Or something better, but I like that bonus idea for very simple implementation. Necroweave nora cost reduction.

I recently am over 2k rating, and could easily keep climbing. I still don't think the bonus is healthy for gameplay, nor very strong outside of cheap inexpensive units.

 

No

 

None of these things are hard counters.

 

That's your opinion

 

There is only 1 faction in the game that doesnt have a bonus and thats FW. There are all sorts of suggestions. 50-100% extra nora from globes, a 40% cooldown on all runes, and a ranged type bonus.

 

I understand that any meaningful discussion on the nature of discourse and how communities negotiate definitions would be lost on you, so I am just going to plunk down the first definition I found for hard counter vs. soft counter (found by searching "hard counter definition magic" on google, where magic refers to the popular card game from whence I assumed that the term originated):

A few short posts within that same page, someone adds a deceptively meaningful gem:

If we toss these two thoughts into the world of customized loadout games (and Pox in particular), the hard counter is a component that is disproportionately strong against a particular archetype or a core component of an archetype, and it is balanced against the low frequency with which you expect to face that archetype (opportunity cost of situationally dominant/useless vs. universally good/good). I promised myself that I wouldn't dive into the nature of these definitions because you consistently ignore the interesting question embedded in those definitions in favor of the useless statements you get when you tack a subjective opinion onto a baseless assumption.

Pox has had several "hard counters" over the years:
Terrain stabilizer vs. aquatic/semiaquatic archetype (aquas/semis leverage a situationally efficient/inefficient champion ability into a ~95% best-case ability by generating terrain, stabilizer flipped that equation to ~90% worst-case)
Metamagic backlash vs. charged champions (if your opponent has no charged champions, its 40n to deal 12 damage to a single target is inefficient relative to other single-target spells, otherwise 40n to deal 50 damage to a single target is the most efficient spell in the game)
Relic overload vs. relic-heavy decks (the cost of unstable powersource can easily be 50-100n less than the cost of the relics that it removes, creating a massive value swing vs. certain archetypes)
Backlash vs. nora generation (does not negate the advantage, but turns it into a disadvantage that can either win the game directly or reduce the value of nora generators to a negative)
Swarm vs. cheap champ spam (pre-ritual, this was a one-sided advantage. Swarm is more of a soft-counter now)

What you have described is just part and parcel of the modified rock-paper-scissors gameplay that has dominated turn-based strategy design for decades.

 

You forgot ice amp and arctic wail vs relics as well. Just want to add that in, in case someone is reading this.

Again, that is your opinion, and I don't agree. No need to be condescending and disrespectful, it doesn't make your argument any better.

 

heh the suggestions i just read reminds me of the changes that occured to yugioh at the end of the early era when the devs took it's brawl style game play into a combo heavy gimicky fusion style, only in the sense that it ends an existing style of play with a sledge hammer style change.

won't even comment on most of the suggestions but if they occur i hope it goes better for pox then the ones to yugioh did to the player base in my old town. which in the run of a month went from thriving to non-existent

maybe pox could use with another complete redesign to the game play... but I doubt it....I suspect more then anything it needs more runes/expansions/events within it's existing design, which at best would extend it's life a little longer.

All said and done I don't know the answer...well I know the answer if it was built from the ground up today, but as things stand I don't even know what is capable of being done let alone, how to fix it within the constraints of this ancient engine and non-modern design.

 

I agree Poxnora would lose its fan base with a limited number of runes. What poxnora could maybe do with is rotating sets into meta with each release. The problem with that is it may rotate out some champs crucial for certain themes. My honest opinion with the problem with Poxnora, is people take up one of the hardest factions to play like UD or KF, and get curb stomped until they quit because of how hard those factions are to play! Maybe the easier factions like SP, SL and FS need more aesthetically pleasing runes like the Stormbunny...

 

game balance doesn't effect the longevity of a player playing any collectible game to the degree some like to imagine.

some of the biggest collectible games out their like magic the gathering or hearth stone are by design imbalanced games, and are incredibly popular with massive player bases.

imo the biggest thing that keeps players playing is something to AIM FOR in MTG they have a highly competitive scene with massive tournament formats and pro level goals, problem is pox always changes what that thing is to the exclusion of other things especially pvp.

at one point in time most of us faught for faction points as a way to earn exclusive golden heroes, other times we had weekend tournaments for exclusive runes, rarely we wanted battle master for the blue titles. they've systematically gone through and removed every single thing we used to pvp for, and since at the time pve was terrible and the only people playing were there for pvp, those players left as soon as there were delays of any significant amount of time.

an eternal quest for unreachable balance has blinded the devs from focusing on giving players more reasons to play and stick around, more goals and quests for pvp content instead of exclusively pve rewards, that said the blame may lie with the client, or the sony deals, or any number of other issues, but blame is not really my goal, just pointing things out uselessly.

I come back regularly, the cycle is always the same now, get accustomed to the meta after returning, play for a bit, collect a couple runes off the gold earned, the leave again for awhile because I have nothing to do but play meaningless pvp matches( not boring btw ). I have no faction ranks to aim for, or drums of war battles to win, no tournaments, icons suck, titles are gone, no events, no anything of any meaning at all.

at the end of the day you can change the mechanics, tweak the factions, modify costs, etc but their will always be a top faction, focusing all your efforts on that and not the UX is a bad choice.

 

Well the rewards are better than ever with 3.5k shards + an exo up for grabs in PVP.

What is more important ATM I think is player retention or new player retention.

Once you have played the same players using the same decks over and over again you get bored of the game!

During the Corpse era there were loads of new players all the time, using interesting decks which challenged you in a different way. Some even surprised you and beat you because of the ingenuity of their decks. These games although frustrating for older players, gave them entertainment value they could not get from curb stomping someone.

Different maps in rotation would help!

In sum what I think this game needs is for all new players to start a deck in an easier faction like ST so that they can get good at the game and come up with an entertaining deck.

The variety of playable decks is higher than ever, but with a smaller retention rate less people are kicking ass with their favourite unique deck.

Do you think good beginner decks purchasable with shards or gold built by a player like yourself would help with free to play?

 

If you look at the changes dota2 has gone through recently, you could give a more positive example of major changes to game design which worked..

Not claiming to have any answers either but a good rule of thumb is where there is a will there is a way

 

I don't really think that is true. Most decks are pretty soulless imo. Not that the game is imbalanced horribly per faction (most factions do have SOMETHING) but I don't consider there to be much room for variety within faction. The exists so many shoebox runes, and the choices are pretty limited due to some runes completely outshininng others, if you are trying to get competitive.

 

There are so many competitive runes within UD, SL, SP and FW its crazy! As I have pointed out in other threads the only thing preventing SP balanced anything from not succeeding is a lack of cleanse, thats why armoured Fesh has become x2 auto unless you run Hyaenid Witchdoctor, Cyclops Blastmage or Bait and Switch...

 

I agree with this, too many devs are focused on balance instead of gameplay. There's always going to be a top faction, I don't see the point in obsessing over balance. Players do just want something to aim for. As a newer player, the collection aspect is definetly there for me. But a vet, I can see what you mean.

Still, a sledgehammer as you describe it, is just what the game needs to be interesting, I don't think the PD runes really did much, do you? Sure, KF became better, but do you feel like the game became more interesting because of that?

Also, it would be nice for more tournaments.

 

I disagree that there's many competitive runes in these factions.

 

Great post.

Would love to see a way to make playing more meaningful.

 

Badgerale you seem to be able to win with anything in UD, I also have discovered there are loads of meta SP runes...

 

good post, i agree to most of it.
i already lost hope on them implementing that or anything close to that tho, too many things need fix i just wont wait another year+ to see it happen.
Olny thing that kept me checking the forums all this tine is to see what happens with the player made expac