I would feel we would be overnerfing demonshield. It would be better to clean out the demons first (take demon away where it was just slapped on to be able to beckoned/shielded), than give out shroud or other anti range utilities in theme/race and only than consider nerfing demon shield.
Take out demon where it isn't needed, maybe tap some of the OP demon supporting runes and give the other themes in UD some support of a similar tier that gives us a reason to run those themes competitively. Although, this goes beyond the realm of a 5-8 rune per patch nerf/buff and is more of a foundational restructuring of a faction.
You know what's funny that i was think recently about the same thing ... this my suggestion Old 73 nora DMG 8 , Speed 5 , Range 1, Hp 50 Attack:Fire Attack charged 2 Cataclysm - spend 14 charges and all champions take 40 fire damage Fireater Upgrade 1 Searing aura 1/2/3 Upgrade 2 Consume /burn/scale armour New 78 nora DMG 8 , Speed 5 , Range 1-2, Hp 50 Attack:Fire Cataclysm - spend 6 charges and all champions take 15 fire damage and loose all its charges cd 2 - new ability is now 15 nora Attack charged 2 Fire Eater Upgrade 1 Searing aura 1/2/3 Upgrade 2 Consume /Burn 3 /Scale armour I wanted to give 20 dmg for 6 but it was still too op so i made it 15 for 6 , i also like when he had 1-2 range so i gave him the extra range benefit too
I'd much rather strip demon of of a lot of runes so we can get new toys. Hit d shield right now and I think we're going to struggle to deal with range. (orb is expensive, and mind slicer obelisk is so so)
Badger I was looking at deep elf temptress a bit. I figured it could be a good candidate for a rework with sustain unstoppable and be turned into a counter rune. (like demonologist cause hes awesome now) old 10 atk, 5 speed, 2-3 rng, 0 def, 40 hp abilitys punish, atk mag upgrade 1 charm 1/2 upgrade 2 fear 1/2 New Nora cost 67 (low), 80 (High) 8 atk, 6 speed, 2-4 range, 0 def, 42 hp (goblin dirtbags stats aka 46 nora) Base - atk magic - Punish - 6 nora - precision- 6 nora - Sustain unstoppable - 2 nora upgrade 1 Charm 2 -4 nora Charm 3- 6 nora Abash- 10 nora Upgrade 2 - weary- 4 nora - Cripple-3 nora - Debilitate- 10 nora Flavor text- Shell draw you in and rip you apart. Reasoning Currently shes just a bland 5 speed champ that doesn't see play. With this it would provide Ud with a very flavorful counter to CC. Punish and Precision are there to counter things like knohkun do, and dodge. First upgrade tree provides flavorful defenses, and the second packs a nice set of debuffs. Why its Flavorful (yes I know pox cant be balanced on logic, but this is why it fits.) The temptress part of this rune is the Charm/ abash for defense. Precision makes it though her opponent has lowered their defenses around her so she can deliver a nasty blow. Sustain unstoppable fits as though she has driven an ally to fight in a frenzy for her. The fatal blow part of the flavor text is in Punish and the second upgrade tree, all very nasty consequences of lowering your guard.
I like it. Not sure about this time, but one to think of for the next patch. However I'm a little worried that we might be getting carried away in redesigning stuff (which is probably my fault) when the main purpose of the PDC is to sort out balance -- I guess there is some room for making design changes but I don't want to eat up to much future design space for new runes.
Well I think all of our high end stuff is pretty in line right now, I'm not terribly sure what really needs nerfed at this point. So at this point is buffs/ lateral changes for as long as Gedden is cool with it. And some runes are just really shoebox (temptress). So the options are leave them in the shoebox, Increase efficiency/ power/ utility , Or try and shoot for the stars with a cool rework. (worst case scenario is gedden will tell you no more reworks. Might as well try though right?)
How about Sheol Magus... a wizard class with a range of one?!?!? last I checked wizards cast spells not beat people with their magic over the head. I would even like it if he gained 1-2 range cause then he would be a little more viable since having his charged attack taken which makes recharge completely worthless. maybe even take away recharge for the extra point in range or hell I would settle for a range of one if he had Blood knowledge then he would actually be useful
I WILL ALWAYS PLAY HIM... but that is not the point. Hagrid didn't tell harry he is a wizard so he can go punch voldemort in the face. Think of the reverse, a Warrior that is forced to shy away from combat because all he has at his disposal is spells... IS... USELESS. A wizard should now magic not pokey pokey staby staby.
Ok in all fairness I am just upset that I used him in a particular way and I am just mad that I have to adapt a whole new play style to one of my favorite corner stone runes. I apologize I just needed to blow some steam I guess.
You should check out the familiar ability on the Imp Familiar. If it worked it would be quite powerful. It seems UD has 2 unique abilities that don't work, Disciple's rapture and Familiar...
That requires him to stay back and never attack so he is a mobile AOE... dont get me wrong I love blood magic but I am not a camper I like to play a game, not sit there waiting for three hours until someone makes a wrong move. I like playing with a beat stick. Thats what he used to be, amazing, now he is just a minor annoyance.
Bok Mistress: -2 Base Dmg +1 Min Range +2 Max Range - Bleed from Upgrade Path 2 + Entangling Attack to Upgrade Path 2 With this she will essentially have: -4 Damage. (-2) from changes, and (-2) from no longer getting the full Faction Bonus. Deploy will yield 12 dmg not 16 dmg anymore. 2-4 Range. Provide additional CC option. Firemaw: Remove Tunnel Lava completely.... Tunnel Lava on a flying champ makes no sense. + Lava Born, on Path 1, and 2 upgrades your choice, I can't think of any. Lava Born will make him more playable, and more interesting.
Bok Mistress While I'd prefer this kit on Hekatian Bloodguard, I can see the appeal. If you want to take this approach, dump the first path (multi-rank upgrades are always bad!) to preserve aspects of her old kit as discussed elsewhere. My suggestion from the linked thread: Bok Mistress - [11 DMG | 6 SPD | 2-4 RNG | 0 DEF | 46 HP] Path 1 = Charm 3 | Nora Barrier | Soften Path 2 = Bleed | Ensnare | Subsume Base = Absorb | Attack: Magical | Flight (Default upgrades = Charm 3 + Ensnare) A combination of mine/yours: Bok Mistress - [10 DMG | 6 SPD | 1-2 RNG | 1 DEF | 46 HP] Path 1 = Blood Knowledge | Charm 3 | Favor Path 2 = Blood Dispersal | Entangling Attack | Soften Base = Attack: Magical | Bleed | Flight (Default upgrades = Charm 3 + Entangling Attack) I'm not sure how you achieved 76N with your suggested kit (are PoxBase's costs outdated?): 74N (Bleed/Charm 3) -8 (Absorb) +12 (Blood Dispersal) +4 (Blood Knowledge) = 82N (78N w/Charm 1) Because of this, I shuffled abilities around for a more agreeable cost range of 74N to 76N to 80N. I've dropped her to 10 DMG (will further reduce cost) to reflect the +4 UD DMG and Blood Knowledge ramp. She'll reach 16 DMG (the max healing for two champs) with only a pair of nearby Bloodied enemies. Griefbearer's Fountain and Banner would push her to 18 DMG and there are still several other options for bonuses. It puts her on par with my suggestion for Hekatian Bloodguard given that's what you're pulling from. This preserves her support role while providing an option for Bleed BGs. She wouldn't be forced into Bleed synergy by having Blood Dispersal on base. I'm leaning towards the idea of shifting her to 12 DMG, 2-3 RNG, 0 DEF and 42 HP with Blood Magic (instead of Blood Knowledge) given she's a Wizard, though. Hekatian Arbiter The problem with her design is she's missing two upgrades, durability and/or mobility. She's a Knight that is squishier than a Wizard (Bok Mistress). I've pulled parts of my previously suggested change into a version that retains Counter Attack: Ranged (assuming you get its cost reduced): Hekatian Arbiter - [8 DMG | 6 SPD | 1-2 RNG | 2 DEF | 48 HP] Path 1 = Assault | Counter Attack: Ranged | Impaling Strike Path 2 = Bloodlust | Melee Specialist 2 | Reflexes 3 Base = Attack: Physical | Bleed | Fury | Flight (Default upgrades = Counter Attack: Ranged + Melee Specialist 2) I've moved Fury to base and dropped her to 8 DMG in exchange for 2 DEF and 48 HP. Path 1 contains options for free/multi Fury triggers while path 2 is the equivalent of a specialization slider. She can have +50% outgoing DMG (vs Bloodied), flat DMG/DEF bonuses (via proximity) or -50% incoming DMG (from melee). This kit supports her identity as a Demon (Bok) Knight and provides flavorful options that align with the presence of animated swords (help attack/defend). Hekatian Bloodguard I don't agree with this at all. Her upgrades are lackluster and her entire kit seems to exist solely for the on deploy pet. I would sooner ditch said pet than make her a bland pet beater. The direction I would take if you apply the bulk of my previous suggestion to Bok Mistress: Hekatian Bloodguard - [6 DMG | 6 SPD | 1-2 RNG | 1 DEF | 40 HP] Path 1 = Blood Knowledge | Drive | Invigorate 1 Path 2 = Dictate | Pull | Punish Base = Attack: Magical | Bleed | Flight | Pet: Screaming Imp (Default upgrades = Drive + Punish) Her new price range would be 88N to 89N to 95N (before -1 DMG/+1RNG) which is right around what you were looking at. She'll have 10 DMG in FF and can apply/gain extra damage through several of her upgrade options. Pull is a flavorful option given the whip (implies a 1-2 RNG at minimum). This is also a solid foundation to build upon if the consensus is to drop her pet (as my previous changes are being applied to Bok Mistress). (I brought these up last time, saw a couple were mentioned in this thread as well) Additional Candidates Deep Elf Fire Dancer - [9 DMG | 6 SPD | 1-3 RNG | 0 DEF | 42HP] Path 1 = Damage Shield: Fire 3 | Fire Aura 3 | Flamestrike 2 Path 2 = Antagonize | Arcane Dance | Blind Base = Attack: Fire | Deflect: Fire | Fascinate | Resistance: Fire 2 or 3 (Default upgrades = Fire Aura 3 + Arcane Dance) Bump her up to 9 DMG/6 SPD and reorganize her upgrades while fleshing them out. Flamestrike 2 provides an occasional +1 RNG to her attack as a way of "lashing" out while Antagonize is an interesting alternative to Blind. Deep Elf Temptress - [10 DMG | 5 SPD | 3-4 RNG | 0 DEF | 40HP] Path 1 = Distract | Grand Entrance | Impenetrable Path 2 = Confuse | Fear 2 | Restraining Aura Base = Attack: Magical | Charm 3 | Punish (Default upgrades = Distract + Confuse) She may also need 6 SPD, but bumping her to 3-4 RNG, might make her slower speed easier to deal with. I avoided the natural options of Abash/Fascinate because it would cause overlap with Deep Elf Fire Dancer and/or Succubus. Nefari Soul Torch - [8 DMG | 6 SPD | 2-4 RNG | 0 DEF | 40HP] Path 1 = Flame Nova 3 (Inhibits!) | Incinerate 1 | Set Ablaze Path 2 = Fire Eater | Fire Volatility | Immunity: Fire Base = Attack: Fire | Fester (Searing Touch?) | Torch (Default upgrades = Set Ablaze + Immunity: Fire) Torch is a painful sandbag in its current form. It needs to be reverted to the previous version that deals Fire damage instead of Life Loss with a slight cost decrease (1-3N). This change makes Fire Acolyte too strong to include as an upgrade, but will increase her viability due to its affect on other champs with Fire Acolyte. I'd like to see Fester changed to Searing Touch, but that's not as important. Shadow Hunter - [8 DMG | 7 SPD | 1 RNG | 0 DEF | 44HP] Path 1 = Escape | Shadowstrike | Stealth Path 2 = Bounty Hunter | Dispel | Mark Base = Attack: Physical | Domain: Shadows | Flight | Mischief | Shadowspawn (Default upgrades = Shadowstrike + Mark) I've always had trouble including this fellah in my BGs as he's overly expensive thanks to Bounty Hunter. Pick Shadowspawn and he's prioritized once revealed because he can't re-stealth (meaning don't bother with Domain: Shadows). Picking Escape/Stealth reveal where he entered play increasing the likelihood they'll deploy Detection nearby because they don't have to guess. To that end, put Domain: Shadows/Shadowspawn on base and give his DMG/HP a tap. His stealth path now ensures he has a method of stealthing post-shadowspawn. Tempo would be too much with these changes (double AP gen) so replace it with Mark. Choosing Bounty Hunter will probably make him more expensive than he is now, but he'll at least have a better chance of utilizing it before he dies.
Love this. This is essentially what my thoughts were on her as I have expressed many times before. However with these changes I still believe her base dmg should be 10.
