Player Expansion Preview (Protectorate Non-Champions)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Have you also taken a look at what I suggested? Perhaps something there will tickle your fancy.
     
  2. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Ok --

    KF gets Sacrifice-lite and spot shatter.

    FS gets some more contest relics and spot disruption.

    IS gets a KB tool and another form of global destealth.

    ST gets stealth defense and a theme equip.

    Expectations --

    KF's anti-equip probably becomes auto-include, because that is a unique and powerful role, the relic is strong outside of that circumstance, and KF doesn't already have that. Fairy Circle sees use in more aggressive strategies and as a way to generate value in bigger army environments.

    People mess around with the FS relics, but they don't find any immediate spots.

    IS KB relic gets incorporated into decks that want to use KB, and might see some play as a stall-breaker or power-turn relic by relocating behind enemies to move them forward. Other relic has no immediate home.

    ST equip obviously goes into Monks, and provides some more (and quite thematic) durability for their front line. The other relic may see some use as spot-destealth around fonts -- unlikely to be used right now because of meta-game environment sparse on stealth, but could potentially find space if the meta-game shifts.
     
  3. NevrGonaGivUup

    NevrGonaGivUup I need me some PIE!

    I like your fairy-only version. Fairies have far fewer champs that can abuse reinforce.
     
    Etherielin likes this.
  4. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!


    I love Xirones idea with Deception but IF illusion relics dont work then here is my idea:

    Moon Pearl
    Nora: ?
    HP: from 15 to 20
    This relic has Starshine, Magic Acolyte, Confuse Attacker and one of these two options: Portal Blast(so when confuse attacker triggers it pushes champs where it lands which would make your champs move thus triggering Starshine) or Psychic Magnetism (so when its attacked it relocates from confuse attacker and pulls 2 spaces towards it thanks to PM)

    *With Confuse Attacker this relic lasts a bit longer and it does not compete as a contesting relic like Kaleidoscope Mirror and because Starshine needs to stay in play in order to be effective i added Magic Acolyte for survivability.
    *Because Starshine grants majestic(melee cc) then it makes sense to have this relic with Psychic Magnetism, it closes the gap for your melees
    *Portal Blast pushing your guys may seem as a bad idea but in theory it would trigger Starshine and i kind of like negative sideeffects, makes it feel more balanced if its hard to master
     
  5. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Doesnt Relocate Self start on CD?
     
    19madfox95 likes this.
  6. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I guess, but that would make the relic so unplayable that I ignored the possibility.
     
  7. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    If that's the case, then yes, I misunderstood
     
  8. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    In my opinion Mondo Satori is slightly undercosted if the monk clause procs. (This is assuming scrapper still gives evasive 3 and reflexes 3)
     
  9. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    Yeah, the relic is meant to teleport next to a friendly or opposing equipped champion, within range, and shatter said equip. The relic can only move when an equipped champion is near. I honestly don't think it will be highly mobile after its first initial movement. Input on the rune, good or bad, is appreciated!

    Oh yeah, the original version of the relic was to have Teleport: Equip, Enchant: Magic and Curse: Equip. Curse: Equip permanently give an opposing positive equip some negative attributes like Debilitated/Crippled/Weakened so that the opponent wants to shatter his/her own equip. That was a new ability, though, and so it got Shatter instead. If Sok could make a new ability, Curse: Equip would be an acceptable alternative.

    Curse: Equip could be something like "Target equipped champion is Debilitated and Crippled until the champion's equipment is removed from play."

    Would something like that be better in your eyes than Shatter?
    That's fair, I suppose. In most scenarios you won't be generating any nora, especially if it is fairy-only. I see it more as an option for substituting a near-death champion for a damaging relic while being almost nora-neutral. Currently, a 70 nora champion is removed from play for 0 nora and a relic is dropped in its place. The downside is that you can only beneficially drop it when you have a champion near death. Another downside is that you are permanently deciding not to take advantage of KF's healing for that champ. It is kind of like Sacrifice but instead of gaining nora you get a relic instead. It is a situational rune that is situationally powerful.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  10. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    A relic that teleports around granting MA3 and DSM3 can create a lot damage output if the equipped champion is sturdy. Enchant is probably the real problem here. It should have a CD of 2 maybe or cost nora like Elven Trading Post.
     
  11. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    Enchant: Magic has a CD of 4, I believe.
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Which I would guess puts it in the perfect place then, since that's the whole point of racial clauses.
     
  13. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    The relics seem a lot more interesting than the champions, which seemed a bit... safe.

    Would hate to see the usual preview overreaction take away from that.
     
    Xirone likes this.
  14. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Well considering theres 32 monks in ST alone, some of which include Redfist, Bluefist, Kento, Chilling Scale, and a huge load of runes with NKD (which would be so difficult to kill with NKD and scrapper), I wouldn't say it's perfect.

    Side Note: I do know that the number includes the ranged monks it won't work on, but I couldn't be bothered doing a precise add up when I'm simply trying to get my point across that monks are not exactly rare so that clause would be very easy to proc.
     
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    The point of racial clauses, in general, is that when they proc it's slightly over-efficient, and if they didn't proc, it's not efficient. That's generally how they work.

    However, you can make the argument that in this case there are enough good monks that you might splash in and use this equipment even if you are only running that one monk. If that IS the case, then I can see an argument for it being a problem and we have to do something.
     
  16. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    Yes, the ability does, but the enchantment lasts. I talking about having a temporary enchantment or one that has a nora cost.
     
  17. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    The enchantment wears off as soon as you unequip (I believe re-equipment also causes it) it.
     
  18. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    Yes, I get that. But if I have an equip on for 8 rounds, that's a lot of potential damage output. It should have a CD or nora cost.
     
  19. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    does ice watch have any defense?

    since catalysts value is entirely related to how survivable it is I doubt it'll be an amazing include at 20 hp 0 def

    the monk equip seems good, I like defensive equips that still provide their defense even if they are shattered even if only for a round. that said I haven't played monks enough to comment on whether this will help the theme to any serious degree.
     
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Not right now no. We can certainly spin it in a different direction, I do agree Catalyst: Frost isn't all that hot (hehe).

    It did have Propagate: Self initially, but the whole kit doesn't really benefit much from being everywhere other than forming a lot of ice and detection squares... (tho I suppose that could be pretty useful in theory).
     

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