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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by newsbuff, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    [redacted]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
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  2. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    I disagree:

    Would I run willowind in treefolk? Absolutely. Would I run light as a feather? Yes, for anti lumbering. But it's Bane Shift. I don't run that spell anywhere else (except skirmish rush) because it's like a bad swiftwind, which is still bad. I would only run it in trees out of necessity, and only then if I didn't think I had enough champ based anti lumbering.
    So willowind having cast instead of surge means that
    a) the rune becomes much more useful than if I ran it to reveal a spell, and
    b) I don't need to run light as a feather.
    Which is good. I'm going to be deploying willowind anyway, why would I want to run the spell it'self and pay extra nora for it.

    But, your point is saying that cast is much worse than surge, and in most ways yes it is. So if you fell like that, let's just make cast: spells cheaper, or at least the expensive ones. But we don't need to remove it.
     
  3. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    Spellsurge: Fairy Dust would be much better than Fairy Dust (which lost part of it's name, Cast: Fairy Dust).
     
  4. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I honestly think Spellsurge: X is a better design than Cast: X.
    Being forced to run shoeboxed spells or spells you wouldnt really call meta, just for the sake of making that particular rune better, is awesome.
     
  5. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    dune manticore has spellsurge sandstorm
     
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  6. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Occupies 2x rune slots in BG
    I really don't see this as a Con since some of those spells you would sort of run especially blinding flash
     
  7. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    You may need to check your numbers on these. I'm pretty sure most of the Spellsurges are 4 nora. Where are you finding negative costs for them? And why is Invoke Hungry Mire listed under Spellsurges instead of Cast: X?
     
  8. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    Invoke Hungry Mire being 20 nora is pretty lolzy though. if they removed it for +1 SPD Elder Murkwurm would actually be pretty baller with 1-3 range and Cleave.
     
  9. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Would be cool to see more spellsurge.
     
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, and I thought I responded already, weird.

    So my perspective is that the Cast: X is a bit of a misnomer. While they typically borrow from the spell's effects, they are, generally, not really the same as casting the spells. Functionally, they are fancy activated abilities - codewise, the idea was that they'd be "copy paste" but the reality is that abilities work so differently than spells that they are just abilities that are design rip-offs from spells basically.

    Personally, I've always costed Cast: X based on their relative strengths to other champion abilities, rather than to their spell counterparts. This did get changed during the revamp, and I have fixed most of them, but some remain a problem.

    I would prefer, rather than replacing Cast: X with Spellsurge: X, is to update the Cast: X abilities, rename them away from that naming scheme, and also making more consistent with existing abilities. Of course, in some cases, Spellsurge WOULD make sense. But in either case, I don't see a huge drive/need to do this right now.
     
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