Please help with my deck! (skelish meta edition)

EDIT: Here is the new version of the deck. I've changed it alot since first post, and this deck is sort of experimental with the new Christmaschanges 2016.


Question -> does repurpose work off surge charges? Because I will simply replace it with a soul reaver if it does not (I use repurpose as a sort of spot cleanse). Ill try a domi for dark rising, so I can do the relic combo on hard to contest fonts. Not sure if unholy tomb was in the last deck, but I am liking the addition. Another question, does soul reaver cleanse every turn, or just on deploy?

Xulous is tariff,

Mindeswipe on bone circle arch

consume on bb

scale armor on boneshred

detection hunter wizard on bone ele

boost on TL and TP

punishing aura on excavator, crushing charge

bone wing - currently fear and dread. I actually think he is still viable with the changes, since fear 3 on him blocks all melee, and other blocks ranged, situationally strong. Not 100% sure.

Snuff x1 for cheap CC,

is chain lightning needed, or should i put in another dark rising? I mostly use chain lightning as a finisher, since FW lack the single target damage spell aside from ED, which cant kill (goresplosion?)



ps. I have some lim fw for trade if need be (2 gold executioners, 1 angel of death lim, 1 carrionling, one dark knight lim)

 

Drop:
Necromancer, Serkan, Shadowshank.
Add:
Dark Rising, Cloak of Skulls, (something else that's a Skeleton and can make more skeletons).

 

I would consider reapers blade, & essence drain.
Not a big fan of domi, doom, or repurpose.
No death bird or unholy tomb?

The best part of cloak of skulls to me is augment of creation, and bonecircle archmage can be run with that, i am not sure what upgrades you have chosen.

I would double up on broken bones, he is the real hero here.

 

Yeah, cloak of skulls is imperative to your success in skels. Lerpers are pretty much x2 in skeleton bgs. Personally, I would drop Serkan, shank, and necro and add a lerper (I usually only run 15-16 champs)
Repurpose can be a little wonky in skeletons, so I don't run it. I would drop repurpose and Domi and throw in a Dark rising for surge and to feed altar, mobi for powerturns, Essence drain for quick kill.

 

i took mindswipe aura on him


deathbird? you mean blood phoenix? thats an interesting one


I put unholy tomb back in. I didn't have it origninally, because I felt the 40 nora investment didn't pay off quick enough. Used it on a first deploy with graveyard the other game and won though (larger map) which was interesting.

broken bones is sick, but i opted for another boneslave instead.

beginning to think lich magistrate really has to go. When I can afford another black blade baron i guess.

 

Death harvester

 

"Mindswipe": Steal their brains.

I never notice UT until I don't have it.

Yeah... He's a really cool idea to have in a Skele bg, but he's rather hard to use well in one sadly.

 

ah ah ah, I considered deathbird a few times, I might need some more convincing on that. Heres my logic

PROS:
Detection in FW
Deathharvest
Synergy with Graveyard, Boneslave
Flight

Cons:
Weak Combat
Not a skeleton

The way I see it, 12% of the nora cost for Bone Slaves and Skeles isn't worth the investment. I think it is too greedy to play both a deathharvester, a graveyard, and a unholy tomb. Sure the nora gen would be insane eventually, but realisitcally I think the game would be decided before everything came into play. It is sort of the same reason I only use 1 graveyard instead of two. As for altar of skulls, I actually end up using that offensively most of the time, since it synergizes with bone mine(s) well.

he ends up costing between 53 - 62 Nora. I see detection as half the reason to run him, but I already have detection on bone elemental - and heres why

I feel bone elemental should only be used as a counter rune. If they have stealth, I will deploy a bone ele with detection. If they have basic attack fighters, I will deploy a bone ele. If they have mages (i run him with hunter mage, since it is the cheapest, and fairly consistent?) then I deploy him. But since there are so many runes that can get around a bone ele, I dont deploy him.

I guess the great part about a Deathbird is that I can simply deploy him in the beginning and keep him around all game for the detection and nora gen. But... I find playing Unholy Tomb early is MUCH better than playing it early - mid.

I guess my main concern is, that death bird is too greedy, and does not outclass the other options for both nora gen and detection (and even flight, covered by lerpers)

 

I sort of want to replace lich magistrate with a forsaken follower, now that I am running two boneslaves, but i guess elsari coven isnt effective enough to run without witch stacking, probably better off with dark rising xD... Should I switch lich for dark rising in your opinions?

 

Don't run bird now, apparently his ability doesn't even work atm.

 

Every bit of extra nora helps. (SP and FS are getting a lot of nora, passively, you need whatever you can get, just to try to keep up.) I have seen death bird ability working, I just do not know if it is the right amount being refunded. Yes he has detection, but you can use him as a "threat" because he is cheep and flying (flying grants awesome mobility choices.) If I deploy death bird I usually use him to wonder around, threatening vacant fonts, or diverting attention from the main battle. Forcing you opponent to split up their resources if they are not prepared to do so can be an advantage on the battle field. There are some levels where flying units give you fantastic threatening options because terrain layout.

If you are having trouble keeping fonts, remember summoned units themselves can drop relics, but can not contest fonts. The real Broken Bones clones can contest fonts. Example: Broken Bones (BB) is in a font, he gets split into BB1, BB2, (maybe even BB3). There is no reason for both BB1 and BB2 to both stay into the font outside or trying to get a kill. Fonts spells in ST, FS, IS and UD would easily kill a BB that is split if all the splits are in one font. So keep BB1 in the font to contest and run with BB2 and heal him with bone spur, bone arch mage, or bone alter. So BB1 is killed, you move BB2 back into the font to contest, but BB2 is slightly healed, just enough to split when hit again, and the process continues. With death bird out you get nora for each of these clones dieing, and each clone death would trigger vengeful on serkan.

In your 1st build you where using Toll taker. I often run Xulos with tariff. Tariff is an ability you do not see the effect of but it can have a huge effect on the game. (Tariff can greatly hinder your opponents chances of making a comeback because saving nora is hard while their champs are dieing.[Make sure you are not giving up a ton of nora globes]) Xulos can be really easy to keep alive, and Xulos can set up gibs way better then toll taker. Many people laugh at the -8 nora to your opponent but it adds up because 1 nora can be the difference between a power turn or an average turn. If you kill two enemy champs in the same turn that is -16 nora for your opponent. Now that can be a big deal. (Minor speed bump to FS or SP, but again, everything helps.)

This is just tips and tricks I use when I play FW. Feel free to keep only what is useful to you.

 

Tariff Xulos might work in Skellies if you are trying to get a big blob with them, but generally, I think that DF3 is the better option; you end up losing a lot of tempo otherwise. Similarly, I think that Bird is just too slow right now. There are better detection options if you want them, and the generation from Bird involves a really huge investment. I'd only recommend it if you expect a lot of mirror matches or something.

 

So many people in this game think of nora generation as a direct pay off system. This is the wrong way to think of nora generation. If you just look at numbers, you are leaving out momentum and the pace of game. If I have an advantage out on the field, and have extra nora in the bank I can save that nora for a future power turn or I can invest my extra nora into a rune that will grant me more nora in the future.

I spend the nora I have now, for a rune that will give me more nora in the future, the up front cost almost means nothing (if I am already winning) because I have that nora to spend. It is the latter turns where I am getting the extra nora where I normal would not have it that is important.

Nora cow is a good example. Nora cow has a big upfront cost, but if I am already winning the game and have enough nora to deploy him, firk it. They ability to get 10 extra nora on a turn where I need it and do not have it, or get 20 nora off a spell on a turn where I need to deploy and use spell is much more important to me keeping my momentum then that up front cost I paid way back when I had nora.

Tariff is offensive a nora counter in FW. A few of my opponents champs are going to die in the next few turns. Make you opponent pay a tax of 8 nora for making you kill each one of those champs.

Death bird and unholy tomb can almost be seen as defensive. My opponent is going to be deploying a lot, or I am going to be down a font for a few turns, or a whole bunch of champs are about to die over the next few turns. I need to do something to make sure I have nora for the future.

Blah. It was 1st time trying to explain that. Hope it makes sense, that nora generation is not as simple as "how many turns till it pays for it self" rather it is more "I have a surplus of nora now, so I will invest it, so hopefully it will be there when I need it."

Going back the nora cow example for a moment. Nora cow is not your only form of nora generation. You get 40~45 nora for your non-transfigured avatar and you get like 12~14 nora for each font you have. So lets say I am winning a game. I deploy nora cow, on my next turn I get 45(shrine)+12(font)+10 (noracow)=67 nora. By the next firking turn nora cow is paid for and I have a profit of 2 nora. That means every power store after or blood for nora after is all profit.

 

Please correct me if my numbers are off in that last paragraph, but whatever the numbers are, my point will still stand. I used nora cow as an example because her numbers are more consistent then what unholy tomb or death bird would be.

 

Yeah, I get all of that. My argument is that Bird is a crap investment plan. If you are investing in Bird, you would have been better of playing a champion so that you need less nora in the future to stay alive. Payoff time is important, because payoff time relates to tempo. If you play Bird, and it only generates nora, but it takes 10 rounds for it to pay itself, off, then for 10 rounds -- perhaps half the game -- you would have been better off not playing Bird; the Bird gets you less than literally nothing, it hurts you. And if you are hurt during those first 10 rounds, you are less likely to even make it to the next 10.

Also:

Things that are good in these situations are called "win-more" cards. If something is only good when you are winning, then it is bad. There are a lot of big combos that are win-more -- if you set them up, or get the oodles of nora necessary, splendid! You destroy everything! But if you have the nora or the board presence to pull them off, you could just as easily have played normal champions and attacked, and would have still won. The combo itself is useless. Bird, in most situations, is like that on a smaller scale.

All of that is ignoring the way that nora generation interacts with resource curves. Generation is an incremental effect, which means that, while it works better in low-resource environments, it can actually contribute to a deck needing higher-resource environments to work. For instance, if you need to deploy Bird, Tome, Tomb, GY, Bone Altar, and Statue every game, you have a huge baseline operating cost, so high that finding the nora and tempo to work out those deploys will often end up losing you the game before you can really play. I run Tomb/Tome/GY/Statue and am already aware of how much that pushes the boundaries, even with GY balancing out its tempo with Ed. Theoretically you can run Bird as emergency Detection and a third-string incremental option, but then it is taking up a deck slot better spent on one of FW's many other good options.

So, in sum, I get the point that you are making, but I am highly skeptical of its applicability to a real competitive game.

 

Ya for sure, you have to use some in game judgement when deploying stuff. Death bird is not just nora gen and detection though, he is a flying unit with an enhanced spell presence that can attack and threaten fronts outside of a combat zone if need be. I mean he is a champ. He is going to be able to do stuff. Is he what you need every time? No. Can he be just enough and add to your nora gen, sure.

I do not feel nora generation is "win-more" but there is just less risk involved if you are winning when you deploy it. That is why i chose the winning example. If you are about the start losing, runes like unholy tomb can help keep you in the game, but the risk of deploying tomb when your losing or are about to be losing or even when the playing field seems natural is greater then when you are winning.

 

Just to clarify, I am not asserting that all nora gen is win-more, just that it can be.

 

I run tariff and vitality on xulous, only because DF doesnt have synergy with anything else. Lets be honest: skellies always want to be a big blob.

 

Id go dark favour on him, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

Even with the big blob, though, I'm not sure that Tariff is the right way to go. Why give up on one of the best abilities in the game -- let alone one of the strongest tempo moves -- just so you can have a bit more power once you are in a stable situation? Tariff just seems too contingent and slow compared to something like DF.